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Kinesis862's avatar
Kinesis862
3 years ago

Re: Support class ability suggestion: Revive HP/Shield pool.

@PogeNoob @PholanxTTV Since you both pretty much said the same thing, its clear you both miss the point and live in some weird paradox land.

  • According to you guys, somehow lifeline is both worse than newcastle, yet you argue that we need to "not revive and just fight" even though that is exactly what lifeline's revive is designed for. It's like saying "The character designed to exactly do my professional advice is worse than the character that objectively does the opposite of my amazing advice."
  • You guys also don't seem to understand the current situation of normal play, which is filled to the brim with instant quitting teammates and teams that don't stick together because they are used to just being abandoned by people like you all and your "just fight" advice.
  • You also seem to think that a singular free revive is a horrific idea, yet I see no calls to remove the gold KD shield.
  • You also seem to think that allowing one paid for revive is somehow going to kill the game, yet don't seem to care for the actual current issue of teams just rage quitting the moment one person is downed. Also how is using one phoenix kit the equivalent of using 10 ultimate accelerants of the old days? The two are not even remotely comparable in time waste. Is it not still a bizarre paradox of a mindset to say one revive is going to kill the game yet full sends rolling over teams the moment one person is downed is a perfectly okay issue.

All you are doing with this mindset is further drilling the issue into the ground. You further discourage teamwork, you further encourage instant-leaving the moment one person is downed, you further encourage the thoughtless full send on down rather than using that down as an opportunity to take a better position. Battles all end at point blank range the moment one person is downed and your feedback only serves to further engrave that problem into Apex.

Its remarkable to me that someone could think an item use revive is OP. Its a one off that only works when you are on the losing end of the fight. All it does is procrastinate, you don't kill an enemy team by being downed, you don't win by giving them the time to walk up on you and take a better position while you revive. Yet for some reason making games less of a onesided stomp that favors the high FPS is such an objectionable idea. The logic is beyond me, and beyond insensitive to the blatant issues plaguing the average game.

2 Replies

  • PholanxTTV's avatar
    PholanxTTV
    3 years ago

    We aren't missing any point here.

    Think of reviving as a requirement checklist.

    Is my knocked team mate in cover?

    Is the enemy pushing?

    Is my other team mate covering us?

    Is it safe to revive?

    If I revive will they be safe to heal up?

    Lifeline can counter a few of those checks. Lifelines only weakness is the team mate being in cover. If they are behind a wall, she can press one button and start to cover fire the revive AND put a heal drone down to speed up healing.

    Newcastle needs to be played more methodically. He can create cover with his ULT and Tactical and his knockdown shield if they aren't in cover. YOU have to make sure the enemies aren't pushing and that your team mate is covering. Then its up to you to defend them while they heal up through shields and cover fire until they are ready to fight.

    If you are so concerned about rage quitters leaving on downs then how is a reviving buff going to help? They go down they insta leave. How are you going to revive them then?

    This argument has NOTHING to do with a revive and more so about no leaver penalty in normals. 

    Having a reviving buff will also not fix team mates that don't stick together. If they are going to leave then what can you do? If you go for the revive then you die with them. Or you don't go for the revive and have a chance in winning the fight.

    I've had so many different times where I haven't picked someone up and win the fight then come and get them after. I've also been the guy on the floor, sometimes they are better left on the ground. I get that in normal peoples mentality is different and they just want to go to the next game instead of the seeing the outcome but that isn't a reviving issue AT ALL.

    A singular free revive IS a Horrific idea. This whole game works on advantages and disadvantages. You get a knock. You push. You are expecting the enemy to be at a disadvantage? Correct?

    They are one player down. But you want to give a free revive. Now its equal again and the team mate that went down is back up and ready to fight. Does that seem fair on the people that won the advantage with a knock? No. Not at all. Its not fair. Gold knockdown IS different. Because its rare. Not every support character will have one. Especially a character than can revive easier than others.

    Once again Rage quitting team mates is a different issue, a support reviving buff wont fix that AT ALL. completely baseless argument.

    It seems you cant grasp the concept of sometimes your team mate is better left downed until the end of the fight. (Please dont say "What if they rage quit) because thats a different issue. Think of it like this: 

    Team mate gets downed. The enemies are pushing. You go for the revive. You are now Vulnerable and out of the fight until you finish the revive. Now its not 2v3, Its 1v3. Your team mate is now 1v3. They get rolled. now its 2v3 but your team mate is still healing up. Was it worth it? NO.

    Or 

    You can leave your team mate down FOR NOW, and try to stop the enemy push. maybe even down one as they push through open ground. Hard but do able and definitely the better option than being an easy target. Get an advantage through the disadvantage.

  • PogeNoob's avatar
    PogeNoob
    3 years ago
    @Kinesis862 Sure, we are both wrong and you are the only right, great mindset.

    1. gold knockdown is fine, because its only like 50% of hp/shield replenish and its a gold item so only few of them are in a match. On the other hand your suggestion would mean that like half of the lobby pretty much starts with an ability that is twice as powerfull as gold knock...

    2. revive takes 6s, phoenix takes 10s and bat+medkit 13s and you see no issue here? That it would be twice as fast just to get knocked down and revived than healing up...

    3. Imagine pretty common scenario where you knock someone so you push him to maybe finish him off or put pressure on his team and as you are about to turn corner, you get jumped by the knocked guy, now full hp, and his friend... Where is balance in that? Where is the reward for your skill? The obvious answer is: "then dont push...", too bad this will make all fights significantly longer, 3rd partying so much worse, not to mention killing all the momentum and fast paced action in the game.

    4. Haters gonna hate, quitters gonna quit. Not sure in which lobbies are you playing, but in mine ppl wait until they are thirsted, so any buff to revive is literally irelevant, because either you get to them in time and all is good or they die and leave, simple as that. Not to mention any balancing around the most toxic spectrum of your playerbase is obviously insane and sure way how to break your game.

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