@RichAC wrote:
TLDR. stopped reading at "the faq is outdated". Give me a link or something instead of your hearsay.
If you can't be bothered to read, you shouldn't bother to write. If you don't believe my claims you had only to look at the very FAQ you linked. Right in the same Ranking section you quoted they refer to Sanhok as "just recently" released. Sanhok released in June 2018. They also tell you "all 3 maps have MMR". PUBG has had 4 maps for quite a while now.
You can't use a game you never played in your arguments and then just dismiss what someone who played it for years says as hearsay. Especially after you literally just used "I do know people that have told me" as an argument, which is literally the definition of hearsay. If you can't even bother to read other people's words without some kind of forensic evidence upfront there's no point in having a conversation with you.
@2deski wrote:
@RichAC wrote:TLDR. stopped reading at "the faq is outdated". Give me a link or something instead of your hearsay.
If you can't be bothered to read, you shouldn't bother to write. If you don't believe my claims you had only to look at the very FAQ you linked. Right in the same Ranking section you quoted they refer to Sanhok as "just recently" released. Sanhok released in June 2018. They also tell you "all 3 maps have MMR". PUBG has had 4 maps for quite a while now.
You can't use a game you never played in your arguments and then just dismiss what someone who played it for years says as hearsay. Especially after you literally just used "I do know people that have told me" as an argument, which is literally the definition of hearsay. If you can't even bother to read other people's words without some kind of forensic evidence upfront there's no point in having a conversation with you.
First you tell me the faq is outdated and now you tell me I should read it? lol Shankhok is just a map. Glad you admit though its not outdated now. 🙂
The faq says the mmr is not based on stats like kills. they probably fear stat padders, or don't think it equates to a win, or they take more stats into consideration. I think respawn can do a good job. All I know is they did a good job with the matchmaker as it is now in titanfall 2. And the MMR in pubg helped.
https://pubg.gamepedia.com/Frequently_Asked_Questions_(FAQ)#Ranking
You can learn alot about things you never experienced personally. Because I actually DO read, unlike you. And unless you work on the game yourself, The above faq is all we can read and know about it. I can't take your word for anything because you probably read alot of fake news from unofficial sources.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/130983922?t=01h13m49s
If you have a more updated Dev stream where they talk about their new ranking system. Please enlighten us all. But otherwise. WHo are you? I'm sure if thats the case its improved since then and still behind closed doors.
@RichAC wrote:You can learn alot about things you never experienced personally. Because I actually DO read, unlike you.
Yes, as we can all see just from this topic alone:
@RichAC wrote:
LMAO, I didn't read past the first lines. first of all, Their FAQ says...
...
TLDR. stopped reading at "the faq is outdated".
...
First you tell me the faq is outdated and now you tell me I should read it?
... even when you quote a document about a game you never played to use as part of your argument, you still don't bother to read it. It's actually hilarious how you only read someone's first line, then quote a doc of which you also only read one line as a supposed proof that you are right. I find it quite challenging to imagine a more lazy and condescending way to argue.
And of course by learning a lot you mean this nonsense:
@RichAC wrote:But I do know people that have that have told me after they implemented their form of MMR< they were never grouped with people on the lvl of DrDisrespect as an avg or below avg player again
As if when Doc did his 10+ kill games multiple times a day he did that against players anywhere close to his level.
@RichAC wrote:
lol Shankhok is just a map. Glad you admit though its not outdated now. 🙂
It's spelled Sanhok. And yeah no sh|t it's a map. Released in June 2018, not "just recently" as your holy book says. You clearly need to read what I wrote a few more (dozen) times.
@RichAC wrote:And unless you work on the game yourself, The above faq is all we can read and know about it. I can't take your word for anything because you probably read alot of fake news from unofficial sources.
Oh, is that so now? Then why on earth did you ever bring that FAQ up? Because that FAQ, just as the 2 year old AMA that it quotes, does not claim that that system was ever effective. You do that based solely on some people you know allegedly telling you that they don't get matched with DrDisrespect. That's your whole argument, emptier than the new battle pass.
Second, your statement is frankly beyond nonsense. The only things we can know are what official sources say? Because making our own observations about actual reality is what, heresy? I guess everyone who says that PUBG has 4 maps is a liar because the holy Gamepedia FAQ clearly says there are only 3 maps in PUBG. The fourth map is a hoax just like all those fake space photos created to make us believe that the Earth is round.
Your posts get only more nuts the more you go at it. For your own sake I'll assume you're drunk senseless and won't participate in your self-humiliation any longer.
I'm on the fence about it. Ranked matchmaking is great for match quality and challenge, but at the same time, I enjoy seeing people of different skill levels. Yes it's frustrating to get wrecked by some 8574 kills TTV player, but it's also very satisfying to solo a squad of players who are a bit below you in skill. The latter reminds you of your own improvement.
The argument that new players can't improve in this environment is false. I was as new as anyone, I had never played a BR and not played an FPS in about 15 years, yet I've improved a lot.
Oh man where to start, so many wrong points and senseless arguments.
This game needs a matchmaking plain and simple. No question about that.
It's ridiculous to put every player in the same match and not considerate the different level of skill.
The difference between the players is extremely high. Somebody made a reference to sports and mentioned Alex Ovechkin or Michael Jordan. Just think about what they are/were doing to other pro athletes and then imagine how they will destroy amateur or beginner players. It would be insanely one sided.
Yes, Apex is a team based game, but the overall ability to get kills is the most important one and essential for winning. You can play the loot simulator and hide for 20 minutes without fighting but at the end you have to fight. And i believe 9 of 10 times the better player wins easily.
I think the most people in this thread are thinking way to complicated. You can't put everything in consideration to get a matchmaking. It's just about the kills per game ratio. Good or better player will always go on top no matter what the other player does or try. Reaction, aiming and movement is way more important as everything else.
A good player will also kill entire squads of noobs just because of the better aiming.
Put in a hidden mmr with just three ranks based of the kill per game ratio and the game will be fine and enjoyable for everyone.
Like this for example:
Bronze 0 - 1.5 kills per game
Silver > 1.5 - 3 kills per game
Gold > 3 kills per game.
Constantly adjust the mmr, rank players up and down. Premade Squads go with the highest Player in the Squad.
Easy going, and more fun for all players. The good player get good teammates and opponents and the bad and new players get way more fair matchups in their rank.
Opinions?
@nooblet123 This only applies when there's a small difference between the two squads in terms of skill. If you put a pro hockey team against a hockey team made of kids and the pro hockey team played seriously, the kids would NEVER either enjoy the game nor even have a chance to improve as they get destroyed without really even understanding wtf happened. Somebody that just started playing (and put in a squad of randoms) shouldn't be constantly put in the same game as multiple squads of premades sweaty TTV's with 4k+ kills communicating on discord with practiced and established teamwork and cohesion.
@Ayes80 wrote:Oh man where to start, so many wrong points and senseless arguments.
Well, you just added one to the list.
@Ayes80 wrote:I think the most people in this thread are thinking way to complicated. You can't put everything in consideration to get a matchmaking. It's just about the kills per game ratio.
You definitely need to think more complex than that. This is not how it works. You cannot have a game where everyone scores 3 kills. If you match by combat skill everyone would have ~0.5 kills per game. Which could make it a very different game. And if the MMR would be hidden then combat skill would effectively not matter. You won't have any reason to get better at fighting because if you do you'd simply be matched with better opponents. And no matter what, you'd have half a kill per game on average. This could potentially turn the game into being all about avoiding fights at all costs.
@2deski wrote:
@Ayes80 wrote:Oh man where to start, so many wrong points and senseless arguments.
Well, you just added one to the list.
@Ayes80 wrote:I think the most people in this thread are thinking way to complicated. You can't put everything in consideration to get a matchmaking. It's just about the kills per game ratio.
You definitely need to think more complex than that. This is not how it works. You cannot have a game where everyone scores 3 kills. If you match by combat skill everyone would have ~0.5 kills per game. Which could make it a very different game. And if the MMR would be hidden then combat skill would effectively not matter. You won't have any reason to get better at fighting because if you do you'd simply be matched with better opponents. And no matter what, you'd have half a kill per game on average. This could potentially turn the game into being all about avoiding fights at all costs.
I don't really understand your thoughts...
The game is about fun. And the game is about winning in the end. The only thing a simple matchmaking should effect is a more fair game experience especially for weaker players. Nobody would change their style of play because of that. The games will just be more balanced.
So where is your problem with that
No more easy kills for you?
Edit: I read your answer a few times and I really don't understand what you are trying to say :-)
"You cannot have a game where everyone scores 3 kills." But you know what a ratio or an average is, do you? No one thinks everyone will score 3 kills in a game?
"If you match by combat skill everyone would have ~0.5 kills per game." What? What do you mean with that?
" You won't have any reason to get better at fighting because if you do you'd simply be matched with better opponents. And no matter what, you'd have half a kill per game on average." Again,.. what???? I think you really don't understand statistics an the meaning of kill per game RATIO.
I try to clear this one for you... if someone has 4.000 + kills in 500 games on his whole account he has a kill per game ratio of 8. If another guy has 100 kills in 500 games he has a ratio of 0,2. In no world and never ever should these guys meet in the same match of Apex Legends. Why? Because they are skill wise on different planets! You understand that?
To make it more vivid for you. This will turn out like Usain Bolt against a guy with one leg in a 100m running.
I will never understand how anybody could defend this unfair condition in these games.
Yes the game is about winning. So why would you want a ranking by kill stat only and no wins? As you said its easy to get to 2nd place. but the fight for 1st is what really matters in the end and the better players will consistently win no matter how many kills they got. And better doesn't simply mean aim in games that also require alot of strategy, which BR's do way more then a TDM.
Where you drop is the most important thing. And knowing when to engage and when to RUN AWAY. Only people with short attention spans want to hot drop to kill stat pad all time or amateurs who think that's a valid strategy for going for the win against like matched opponents.
Also, a kill leaderboard is mostly time played. Thats fun for people with the time and skills, but should be something separate from an mmr. Wins, games played, teamplay, who you played with. all that has to be counted for a proper mm. Not just a single stat. IF you go with only a single stat. IT HAS TO BE WINS. not kills. Because I for one and playing to WIN!
It really isn't that simple which is why alot of companies don't bother. But this is 2019 we have many examples. Imo, Gaim theory's was the best. But your also right and anything would be better then nothing. They can always change or tweak it in the future.
@2deski wrote:
@RichAC wrote:You can learn alot about things you never experienced personally. Because I actually DO read, unlike you.
Yes, as we can all see just from this topic alone:
@RichAC wrote:LMAO, I didn't read past the first lines. first of all, Their FAQ says...
...
TLDR. stopped reading at "the faq is outdated".
...
First you tell me the faq is outdated and now you tell me I should read it?
... even when you quote a document about a game you never played to use as part of your argument, you still don't bother to read it. It's actually hilarious how you only read someone's first line, then quote a doc of which you also only read one line as a supposed proof that you are right. I find it quite challenging to imagine a more lazy and condescending way to argue.
And of course by learning a lot you mean this nonsense:
@RichAC wrote:But I do know people that have that have told me after they implemented their form of MMR< they were never grouped with people on the lvl of DrDisrespect as an avg or below avg player again
As if when Doc did his 10+ kill games multiple times a day he did that against players anywhere close to his level.
@RichAC wrote:lol Shankhok is just a map. Glad you admit though its not outdated now. 🙂
It's spelled Sanhok. And yeah no sh|t it's a map. Released in June 2018, not "just recently" as your holy book says. You clearly need to read what I wrote a few more (dozen) times.
@RichAC wrote:And unless you work on the game yourself, The above faq is all we can read and know about it. I can't take your word for anything because you probably read alot of fake news from unofficial sources.
Oh, is that so now? Then why on earth did you ever bring that FAQ up? Because that FAQ, just as the 2 year old AMA that it quotes, does not claim that that system was ever effective. You do that based solely on some people you know allegedly telling you that they don't get matched with DrDisrespect. That's your whole argument, emptier than the new battle pass.
Second, your statement is frankly beyond nonsense. The only things we can know are what official sources say? Because making our own observations about actual reality is what, heresy? I guess everyone who says that PUBG has 4 maps is a liar because the holy Gamepedia FAQ clearly says there are only 3 maps in PUBG. The fourth map is a hoax just like all those fake space photos created to make us believe that the Earth is round.
Your posts get only more nuts the more you go at it. For your own sake I'll assume you're drunk senseless and won't participate in your self-humiliation any longer.
SO you took up half a page to say, I'm lazy, condescending. I didn't read it correctly...etc.. Yet you have nothing to correct about what I said? nothing to add on topic other then personal insults? Thats fine, it only means you concede the argument. You might think most people are dumb, but they are not.
The only thing i can address in your long hot air'd post, is that you claim a matchmaker didn't help in pubg. YA sorry, AGAIN, no, I'll believe the people I know that played the game and what people say on social media about how it improved matches. Over someone trolling me with nothing to actually retort who is afraid he will have play competitive matches in apex legends. To me its common sense, since over the years any sort of matchmaker in any video game has been better then none.
What are you afraid of? Why so selfish to deny others who want competitive matches? You should be asking for a separate queue rather then feel so entitled and selfish demanding there shouldn't be one at all.
And regarding how the matchmaker was actually designed... I'll believe what a dev for the game said two years ago over someone telling me hearsay unable to even link a source for his info. Regardless, anything is better then nothing. IMO it should be based on both a win elo ranking for matching lobbies, and skill rating based on all stats kills, games played, dmg done, etc, for matching individual players to teams. Or vice versa.
@nooblet123 wrote:I'm on the fence about it. Ranked matchmaking is great for match quality and challenge, but at the same time, I enjoy seeing people of different skill levels. Yes it's frustrating to get wrecked by some 8574 kills TTV player, but it's also very satisfying to solo a squad of players who are a bit below you in skill. The latter reminds you of your own improvement.
The argument that new players can't improve in this environment is false. I was as new as anyone, I had never played a BR and not played an FPS in about 15 years, yet I've improved a lot.
Noones saying you can't improve. Michael Jordan smashing me everyday on the basketball court of course would make me better. But why the hell would I consider that fun? And how respected would he be if he felt entitled to do that?
All I'd be doing for him if he was a real player is making him worse. It would have the opposite effect on him and if he was real he wouldn't want to play me either! You fail to understand it goes both ways. Playing noobs also makes you suck. Its not fun and is nothing to brag about. That is if you are truly competitive and a human player.
People also get better playing at their own league level and gradually improving at their own pace in more competitive matches. Society in general would not respect a sport with a community of people that felt otherwise. It would seem fake.
@Ayes80 wrote:
@2deski wrote:
@Ayes80 wrote:Oh man where to start, so many wrong points and senseless arguments.
Well, you just added one to the list.
@Ayes80 wrote:I think the most people in this thread are thinking way to complicated. You can't put everything in consideration to get a matchmaking. It's just about the kills per game ratio.
You definitely need to think more complex than that. This is not how it works. You cannot have a game where everyone scores 3 kills. If you match by combat skill everyone would have ~0.5 kills per game. Which could make it a very different game. And if the MMR would be hidden then combat skill would effectively not matter. You won't have any reason to get better at fighting because if you do you'd simply be matched with better opponents. And no matter what, you'd have half a kill per game on average. This could potentially turn the game into being all about avoiding fights at all costs.
I don't really understand your thoughts...
The game is about fun. And the game is about winning in the end. The only thing a simple matchmaking should effect is a more fair game experience especially for weaker players. Nobody would change their style of play because of that. The games will just be more balanced.
So where is your problem with that
No more easy kills for you?
Edit: I read your answer a few times and I really don't understand what you are trying to say :-)
"You cannot have a game where everyone scores 3 kills." But you know what a ratio or an average is, do you? No one thinks everyone will score 3 kills in a game?
"If you match by combat skill everyone would have ~0.5 kills per game." What? What do you mean with that?
" You won't have any reason to get better at fighting because if you do you'd simply be matched with better opponents. And no matter what, you'd have half a kill per game on average." Again,.. what???? I think you really don't understand statistics an the meaning of kill per game RATIO.
I try to clear this one for you... if someone has 4.000 + kills in 500 games on his whole account he has a kill per game ratio of 8. If another guy has 100 kills in 500 games he has a ratio of 0,2. In no world and never ever should these guys meet in the same match of Apex Legends. Why? Because they are skill wise on different planets! You understand that?
To make it more vivid for you. This will turn out like Usain Bolt against a guy with one leg in a 100m running.
I will never understand how anybody could defend this unfair condition in these games.
Alright, this thread is just like another reddit-like outrage where a bunch of kids viciously demand something they have zero understanding of.
You can't have a gold rank where everyone would have 3 kills per game ratio. :facepalm: That's. Not. How. It. Works. It's literally impossible to sustain and would make zero sense anyway.
Kills per game ratio is completely irrelevant stat in here. K/D is better but it's also irrelevant in here. As is anyone's winrate. You don't rate players like this, kids. You rate them by relative performance. It's not how many kills you got, it's who you killed and who you got killed by. Not how many wins you got but who you won against and who you lost to. So if you match players by combat performance, every fight everyone would have ~50% chance of dying on average. Hence the ~0.5 kills per game. If you can't understand even this basic concept, please, for the love of god, stop talking nonsense. Especially in this kind of tone where you attempt to teach people 2nd grade arithmetic in the process trying to make yourself look smart. This will only make similar kids get false hope on a topic where so far there is none. Stop assuming that when someone tells you that it's not so simple and that there are no examples of successful skill-based MM in BR it means that OMG he's against being matched with equal opponents! I am not. The world is not black and white. Stop making these bizarre notions suggesting that a BR game where 20 teams are stuffed together at the same time is just the same as games where only 2 teams are matched at once like Titanfall, or especially games where only two players are matched into duels like Quake (and by the way, Quake is way harder on new players than this game). It's not. We are not even clear on what the goals of skill-based matchmaking in BR should be exactly. And it's not the end of the world either. There's nothing really stopping you from improving instead of crying how you got killed by a better player. Don't make it sound like you are constantly matched into full lobbies of Twitch streamers. But if you can't live with the way things are, your best bet is to leave this game.
Ok Mr. Complex, i am not a kid. I am not crying. I just try to make an approach for a better and fair gaming experience for the weaker players who, believe it or not, have problems to get kills at all. So the kill per game or kill per death ratio as you mentioned is an important stat. This should help for a rough division of the playerbase nothing more.
So no need for insults and arrogant behavior on your part. It was just an example.
I also never assumed that there are twitch streamers and pro players in every match, but the difference in skill is nevertheless very high even at the "normal" players.
You can only improve to a point, but even with training and experience you will never be as good as these players. Like talent or physical conditions in sport.
You don't want a more fair environment in this game i get that. But many players want that like it or not. And if all players just leave as you want them to do there will be big decline in players overall. Less money for the publisher and no support for future content. So it will get to you sooner or later.
Have fun!
@Ayes80 wrote:So the kill per game or kill per death ratio as you mentioned is an important stat. This should help for a rough division of the playerbase nothing more.
You really need to read what I said as many times as you need and think it through until you understand that what you're saying makes absolutely zero sense.
@Ayes80 wrote:You don't want a more fair environment in this game i get that.
No matter how many times you're going to keep repeating something you made up even after I explicitly denied it, it will not make it true. Nor would you simply ignoring what I say make it false. You keep ignoring any arguments and crying the same tune of "Gimme this thing I want" just like a little kid crying for why can't he have snow in the summer.
@2deski wrote:
@Ayes80 wrote:So the kill per game or kill per death ratio as you mentioned is an important stat. This should help for a rough division of the playerbase nothing more.
You really need to read what I said as many times as you need and think it through until you understand that what you're saying makes absolutely zero sense.
@Ayes80 wrote:You don't want a more fair environment in this game i get that.
No matter how many times you're going to keep repeating something you made up even after I explicitly denied it, it will not make it true. Nor would you simply ignoring what I say make it false. You keep ignoring any arguments and crying the same tune of "Gimme this thing I want" just like a little kid crying for why can't he have snow in the summer.
My little child has more understanding than you so let us just stop to argue. You don't get it anyway. And I will not accept your opinion as right becuase its way to complicated and not measurable.
Just let me hope they will fix their game and you can go on stomping newbies and feel good about it. Everything is fine.
Have fun
Gotta say that i'm impressed with the progress from Respawn.
Now the game seens to have a match making, it's always throwing me in duo squads.
Now not only the players are ridiculously bad, they don't even bother to ping or say anything, they keep talking in programs outside of the game and then wonder why i just ditch them and go do my own things.
GJ Respawn you managed to make a * system even worse.
PS: for the looks of it they changed the "first in first out to everyone" to putting the duos at the top at the list, filling them, them putting solos in the game. That might explain why before solos pretty much always had near instant matchs and duos got a little longer to now duos having near instant matchs and solos waiting a little longe. Or there was some REALLY strange coincidence with the times of the queues and for some REALLY * luck for me of getting 8/10 matchs the 2 other guys being duos.
Yea i just installed the game 2 hours ago, tried playing, am now lvl 6 with 0 kills and on my last game i got killed by a guy with 4356 kills and 4000 something headshot. Uninstalled.
Not the absolute best way draw and KEEP a crowd. I mean its slowly falling down on twitch already and fortnite going back to its old self. Honestly the game is just not viable for anyone who has never played a Battle Royale game before
Bull*hit, this is my first BR game (tried fortnite for couple of hours, didn't attract me) which i like to play and i am new in BR games.
