Getting shot through walls
When are you guys going to fix this? I get into a firefight with someone and jump behind cover. A full second later I take damage and get boxed. This happens in almost every game and it's always a cr...
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@r1ggedgame Yeah I'm not saying it's a good thing. But it's a thing and it's not just an Apex thing. Game companies have figured out that getting people games all over the world means they can play anytime with anyone. And that means more than any competitive thing does to the growth and size of a game playerbase.
@hayhor wrote:
@r1ggedgameYeah I'm not saying it's a good thing. But it's a thing and it's not just an Apex thing. Game companies have figured out that getting people games all over the world means they can play anytime with anyone. And that means more than any competitive thing does to the growth and size of a game playerbase.
Lag compensation has pretty much always been a thing. It’s necessary with online gaming, and I don’t think shooters would be playable without it. So that’s not really the issue.
The problem I have with it, is how it’s tuned. Like most things in games, it can be tweaked in numerous ways. Developers typically give themselves a bunch of dials to tune their game. It’s not just an on or off variable. So the problem is when you’re too generous with how Much Lag compensation someone is given. After a certain threshold, you should receive exponentially less compensation. Over a100ms of latency, you should start getting penalized.
Keep in mind connections fluctuate constantly. So lag comp has to keep up with that as well. Then factor in all that with 50ms updates to the server. Average reaction times are about 250ms for gamers. Some are faster, but definitely not the norm.
I can’t tell you how many times someone was standing completely still, my bullet goes through them, then they move afterwards, and received zero damage.
@RaginSamLag Compensation hasnt been always a thing, it came around 10 years after the first networked fps games (i dont count in MidiMaze, so i start with IP enabled Doom ...) hit the shelves and only for Instagib, took them quite some time to refine it for projectiles.
Ofc its an issue , especially the Apex one is prone for some weird stuff.
In other shooters every projectile has its own packet, Apex bundles info in larger packets (lets say 5 bullets),this has partly to do with their 20 Tick Servers.
One of those packets get lost ... literally 5 hits (instead of one) likely miss !
Also Apex doesnt seem to rely on a full backwards reconcilliation, like most other "unlagged" shooters do and go somewhat straight client side hitdetection without a lot of validation serverside.
The Backwards reconcilliation normally has a range to work "flawless" (most of the time up to 120ms), but that 120ms would technically forbid asian players to make use of the "unlagged" Euro Servers.
Relying on pure clientside hitdetection /prediction without any deeper validation is very open for exploitation.
In your example there is now 2 possibilities :
1) Your Packet with 5 bullets got lost, hence a lot of "noregs"
or
2) The Prediction in your client had way too old data to work with and predicted the wrong playermovements , so the position of your enemy on your screen was "false" (with false i mean, your client, the server and the opponent were "desynced") all along, thats why you "missed".- @r1ggedgame
I've always had some kind of an idea of how all this worked, but it's nice to have that fuzzy knowledge confirmed with succinct and understandable descriptions.
It all confirms what I've known all along. The internet may be an adequate tool for sharing cat videos, but it isn't up to the task of a live multiplayer shooter even after more than twenty years. Too bad.@reconzerohttps://gabrielgambetta.com/client-side-prediction-server-reconciliation.html
a bit more "in depth"
yea and you are right, the internet isnt that good of a place for fast paced shooters anymore.
May it be bcs of congestion or other stuff.
For instance , lots of providers have firewall rules set on specific ports to cope with things like the "getStatus" DDOS attack which was used on Q3-Engine Servers.
This can lead to massively dropped packets if your gametraffic matches the fingerprint , bcs the Firewall doesnt know, oh is this real game traffic or does somebody abuse a gameserver for a denial of service attack. The packets look literally the same to the firewall, hence you game suffers.
@r1ggedgameGood explanation but I've had the same experience with OW2 and the Finals. And in the recent server test for xdefiant it was even worse than Apex. Are these games sending things the same way?
I'm old enough to miss the days where we'd have to haul our xboxes, tiny tvs and network switches to peoples houses to have our own Halo Lans. That was always fun. 🙂
- @hayhor
I dont think they use exactly the same techniques (everyone has a special sauce to add ...) , but they all behave very similar.
I dont want to say its all the gamedevs fault that issues occur , they have to work around a lot of issues the internet has to deal with.
But one thing i really cant understand , why does no AAA Title fricken use IPv6 but the old IPv4, when its clear that normal customers wont get a real IPv4 from their providers anymore out of the box (the crap you get is called Dual Stack Lite, more or less a shared adress), resulting in quite some issues with gaming.
And in the case of Apex you can clearly see that they are squeezing the lemon atm, in the early seasons your ping was more or less the same from dropship to game end. now you have a "low" ping while being in the dropship ... as soon as you hit the ground it increases until everyone is on the map, then it decreases back to the value it had at dropship (roughly when there are half of the players left).
EU players now get send to russian apex servers (im not 100% sure but i guess it started season 19). In my experience, they are quite aweful to play on (not that the servers are bad, but i dont think with all the sanctions and cyberwarefare going on the routing isnt the best it could be)
But thats an issue with all lobby based titles, you simply cant just choose the servers that are playable on your connection, like in the good old times.
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