Just witnessed the most bot team win
It was infuriating to watch is the point of this post. They won because of two things, aim assist, and for some reason having a connection to the server that was obviously better than others. The te...
Forum Discussion
@WhoopFighter
First, 100% yes, lobbies need desperately to be segregated.
"When I die to someone one-clipping me, it's usually a controller player. You can watch how they rotate their character, it's smooth, there's no flicking back and forth to check blind spots. While I watch them, they just stick to targets, rotate perfectly with their opponent. So that's a problem for a multitude of reasons, it alleviates brain power, which allows them to focus more on their movement and positioning. Obviously it keeps them on target, they don't seem to be searching for a hit box, in contrast I'm crossing back and forth over my opponent searching for some hit reg. I've seen guys aim a couple feet to the side of their opponent and still get shots to register. So the hit box is there, but as a mouse player, I'm looking at the character, not their hit box. Then you have all the visual clutter on top of that, which affects a mouse user far more than a controller player."
When I read the above paragraph I didn't feel like I was reading a description of anything that happens when I try to shoot someone. It read like a description of an aimbot. An actual bought-and-paid-for cheat.
Then again, later on when you described the relative effects of aa with an average player vs. a player with already good aim... that rang true as well. Of course, the problem there is when a majority of average players are asked to give something up in order to prevent the 5% from abusing it... well, that sounds extreme. Another argument in favor of input-based lobbies.
You've made me very curious about the mechanics of a mouse and keyboard, but I have to admit that the roadblocks are too big and too numerous. I'm Mac, not pc. Problem number one. I'm a muscle memory player (as I suppose we all are to some degree) so I feel like the learning curve would be STEEP. That's problem two. And number three is: I'm just plain too old to have to re-invent the wheel at this point. And honestly, when I go into the firing range, set everything up to max difficulty and have at it... my accuracy is good by almost any standard, and my ability to shoot and kill without dying is also insanely good. Obviously "good against remotes is one thing" is a true statement. The firing range at its most difficult doesn't even begin to simulate what you find in bronze/silver lobby on a good day. But it tells me that my aim is less of a problem than how I feel about my aim.
All in all, good advice. And who knows? Maybe someone will give me a pc and I'll have an excuse to try it out.
First, 100% yes, lobbies need desperately to be segregated.
"When I die to someone one-clipping me, it's usually a controller player. You can watch how they rotate their character, it's smooth, there's no flicking back and forth to check blind spots. While I watch them, they just stick to targets, rotate perfectly with their opponent. So that's a problem for a multitude of reasons, it alleviates brain power, which allows them to focus more on their movement and positioning. Obviously it keeps them on target, they don't seem to be searching for a hit box, in contrast I'm crossing back and forth over my opponent searching for some hit reg. I've seen guys aim a couple feet to the side of their opponent and still get shots to register. So the hit box is there, but as a mouse player, I'm looking at the character, not their hit box. Then you have all the visual clutter on top of that, which affects a mouse user far more than a controller player."
When I read the above paragraph I didn't feel like I was reading a description of anything that happens when I try to shoot someone. It read like a description of an aimbot. An actual bought-and-paid-for cheat.
Then again, later on when you described the relative effects of aa with an average player vs. a player with already good aim... that rang true as well. Of course, the problem there is when a majority of average players are asked to give something up in order to prevent the 5% from abusing it... well, that sounds extreme. Another argument in favor of input-based lobbies.
You've made me very curious about the mechanics of a mouse and keyboard, but I have to admit that the roadblocks are too big and too numerous. I'm Mac, not pc. Problem number one. I'm a muscle memory player (as I suppose we all are to some degree) so I feel like the learning curve would be STEEP. That's problem two. And number three is: I'm just plain too old to have to re-invent the wheel at this point. And honestly, when I go into the firing range, set everything up to max difficulty and have at it... my accuracy is good by almost any standard, and my ability to shoot and kill without dying is also insanely good. Obviously "good against remotes is one thing" is a true statement. The firing range at its most difficult doesn't even begin to simulate what you find in bronze/silver lobby on a good day. But it tells me that my aim is less of a problem than how I feel about my aim.
All in all, good advice. And who knows? Maybe someone will give me a pc and I'll have an excuse to try it out.
@reconzeroWith aim assist, the average controller player will have a much higher accuracy than the average mouse user. So it's not a small percentage, nor are they abusing it. That part of your statement doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.
You can look up stats from other games that have a lot of aim assist as well. There's some very damning charts from Halo Infinite, and it showed just how much of a disadvantage you were trying to use a mouse. I tried playing the game when it released. Aim assist does stick to players, and that's not because it's a third party software aimbot, it's just your regular aim assist. Which could be argued that it is in fact an aim bot. It's a script that tracks an enemy for the player, but it's a "legal" aim bot because it was put into the game by the developers.
I'm not sure if Apex has a "snap to target" like BF2042 has, but there is certainly a lot of rotational assist in the game. Once you're on target, it will absolutely stick if you know how to move your sticks in a way that promotes that. And I'm not talking about tracking with the joystick, it's if you strafe while ADS, it will then stick to the target. If you don't strafe correctly, it doesn't stick as well. It's like that in most games I've tried with AA. It sticks a lot more if you just simply strafe a little bit.
This is always how the discussion goes unfortunately. Fair is that no one gets aim assist, and if you want to be top dog in a PC game, then you should have to use a mouse. That would be fair. It's not about fair, and I think fair competition is a fallacy anyways, but when they're trying to sell us on a competitive game, that's where the issue lies.
I wouldn't care about aim assist nearly as much if the game was designed around something other than just trying to win gunfights. When I have 1,000's of hours using a mouse and keyboard across multiple FPS games, have gear that's all the lowest latency including my monitor, use my arm on my 19" x 19" mouse pad to aim, to just get beat by someone that's using their thumbs... that's insulting. I don't know how else to put it.
Imagine iRacing being taken over by controllers because they gave them assist in racing. So you could either put together $2,500 racing rig, or just use a $50 controller to win races. It's the same thing here, but it's been normalized for some reason, mostly because of consoles. Which I don't have any issue with consoles themselves.
Switching to a mouse would definitely take time, but if you already understand how to play, it should be a bit easier. I grew up using a controller, and no way I could go back. So I'm sure you could pick it up just fine if you were motivated enough, like anything else.
I dont think you could argue that aim assist is aimbot at all. Afaik they are 2 completely different things.
I play on console, but i am always suprised that m&k pc players complain about aim assist. Theres no way i can compete on a controller against the range and speed of movement and response times on m&k, as an ordinary player.
By the way, clarity again please, what fellow volunteer are you talking about? Thanks
@OldTreeCreeper wrote:I dont think you could argue that aim assist is aimbot at all. Afaik they are 2 completely different things.
I play on console, but i am always suprised that m&k pc players complain about aim assist. Theres no way i can compete on a controller against the range and speed of movement and response times on m&k, as an ordinary player.
By the way, clarity again please, what fellow volunteer are you talking about? Thanks
I wrote a lengthy response, but it got deleted, or it's being looked at since it had links? So this will be shorter and to the point.
Aim assist is a form of an aimbot. They can both work the same way depending on what you're using and the parameters you give it. The amount of assist players get now days with a controller, if I had seen that a decade ago, I would have called that a "soft lock aimbot".
How about this, you think Xim is cheating? I don't think you even understand what it does. It EMULATES a controller so that you can use a mouse instead. It can't do anything different then what a controller can do. So if you think aim assist with a mouse using Xim is cheating, then think about that for a bit. It's only doing what's possible with a controller. I'm aware the new one has recoil scripts now, but people still use the old ones, and then there's a lot of people that don't use the anti-recoil functions. Also, you will not get banned for simply using a Xim, you know why? Because it doesn't do anything that a controller can't already do.
If you were actually interested in this topic you could easily search for things like Apex accuracy charts, Halo Infinite, and so on. There's charts for Apex R5 and Halo Infinite that clearly show that there's a BIG advantage to using a controller with aim assist. There's also a good article on the Washington post about the kid that won the Fortnite solo tournament, and when he won, he said "thanks to aim assist" lol.
When you responded to me defending your earlier post, I read it as you were defending a follow volunteer, I didn't realize it was just you again. I do think you were over policing the forums and being weird about the cheat thing. I don't think that's how you should be moderating a forum. You're being a tool is my point.
Simply put, i dont think any cheating is ok, yet it appears you do. Name calling is really childish.
I had a lengthy discussion at one stage with someone who fundamentally understood the difference between aim assist and aimbot and they explained it to me. Perhaps you need to do a bit more searching and not just make assumptions and assertions.
