Do you know what happens when after 45 mins I don't get a single kill and eveyrone never misses and I'm just smoked game after game after game.... I play something else.Please fix your match making. Yesterday it was fine and I felt like I was "in it" win or lose a fight. Today... I basically need not have bothered as every fight was going to end the same as I was just simply out classed over and over again. Nobody misses. Ever. Give me a reason to play that. Sell it to me.I get people are far better than me at the game. Please stop putting them in my lobbies. A total waste of time.

@reconzero The short answer: the developers are incompetent. In one way or another.The long answer: the matchmaking is not perfect! Otherwise there wouldn't be constant complaints in the forum that players are constantly being killed by Predators/Masters or that the matchmaking apparently only knows two extremes: ok/easy or really hard/unfair.For me, these three points are no reason why the matchmaker does such a poor job at times.Point 1: as a rule, the next server is used. This changes the group of players on the server, but not the matchmaking, or it shouldn't.To point 2: why? Why should the players be split up into playlists? Because of the game mode the player wants to play? The mode is chosen by the player.Point 3: This is exactly where matchmaking fails. "Arbitrary" is a good keyword.I'll link to another post in which I expressed my thoughts on matchmaking:https://answers.ea.com/t5/Spielinformationen/Bots-Es-gibt-sie-wirklich-und-auch-die-Bot-Lobby/m-p/13537506#M15494 Here's the translation to the part that fits quite well here:"I repeat my earlier assessment: with a really good matchmaking system, not only would bots be unnecessary, but cheaters would also be tradable.I'm not a pro, but I would try a "metric" between 0.1 and 10 (0.0 would be a bot; 10.1 would be god mode). The metric would be calculated from the most important and meaningful stats of the players. I haven't thought about exactly how to calculate this key figure and which stats to use. But that's not the topic here at the moment (and other forum members in the German or English forum have already suggested which stats you could use).If you now sort the list of players according to their metric, you get a list of players whose metric go up or down.And then, from 10 downwards, 60 "packs" are always sent into the ring. Starting from 0.1 is certainly also possible. This way, the variance of the players' key figures in a BR round should be as small as possible. And I'll just say that it would also feel fairer and more fun for most players.It would at least have the effect that all cheaters would quickly be among themselves and it shouldn't be possible for bronze/silver/gold players to meet master/predator players en masse. The only negative effect I can think of at the moment would be that the "Predator" and "Master" ranks would have practically no meaning, because only cheaters can actually achieve them. Unless you update your anti-cheat system..."Each player then has "their" skill score, which changes slightly after each match (based on the statistics of the respective player).The brick wall effect would also exist here, BUT the crucial question is: how do the games feel until then and at the end?A few good games and then a long period of total annihilation after 10 seconds? Or almost always an interesting, close game, with a few kills, in which you also lost, but didn't feel like you were playing against a superhuman with no chance?I much prefer the second type of game, and that's exactly the type that used to exist in the past (up to S12 in my opinion).

@Nolege_is_power The issue with pred/streamer 20 kill high damage games you see on YouTube is that it is misleading. You don't see the 6 to 8 hours of game time it took for them to get that one game. You don't see all the drop and die or drop, win the first couple fights and then die. The reality is that 20 bomb high damage game on YouTube usually comes after some really bad games when the MM puts them in a slightly lower lobby and circumstances play out just right(good drop loot, no 3rd party death, people spread out just enough to keep killing).

@saurerDropsXXL"BUT the crucial question is: how do the games feel until then and at the end?A few good games and then a long period of total annihilation after 10 seconds? Or almost always an interesting, close game, with a few kills, in which you also lost, but didn't feel like you were playing against a superhuman with no chance?"Very well put. I've said many times that it isn't whether you win or lose in a game. It's HOW you lose that sends people into fits of rage. But that's something I'm much more willing than you to put down to "the random and meaningless nature of the universe." Rather than evil or lazy matchmakers at Respawn. Although I have to admit that could still be the case. I don't think it is, but it could be.

@Airish85"So as an average player I feel like my playing is predetermined...."You nailed it here, although I would say that you don't even have to bring eomm (or even sbmm) into it at all. This is simply the nature of soloing any team-based game. If the matchmaking were completely random, I don't think the experience would be materially different. Could be wrong. Might not be. Who knows?"Assumption of person playing ranked to achieve a certain rank and rigging game so that he plays as much as possible to gain it is what annoys me."And there it is again. Perfect observation. The game wants you to KEEP PLAYING and therefore your rank grind will, by design, last as long as they can possibly make it last without having an effect on churn. There are so many other compelling reasons to turn one's back on the rank grind, but this alone would be enough for me to never set foot on a rank ladder ever again.@HappyHourSumwur"In some cases I get carried and am obviously dead weight that my masters/pred teammates have to revive over and over again. That's almost worse than getting destroyed immediately in humiliating fashion."This is, in a nutshell, the problem with these wide skill range matches. You're expected to carry two low-skill teammates, or you're expected to have two masters drag you into one untenable situation after another, constantly scraping you up off the floor. The first situation I'll tolerate poorly, but the second will usually drive me to quit in the lobby. I don't want to watch them doing ten things per engagement that look like pure cheatery, and I also don't want to be babysat, especially if they have an attitude about it. And they ALWAYS have an attitude about it. I think it was @hayhor who once told the story of his two stack predator teammates who said, paraphrasing here, "Be quiet and try to keep up." And his response was, as I recall, exactly what mine would have been: "Here, watch how quiet I can be... as I quit on your sorry a**."---------------------I'll end this with the same call to the developer I've been making practically since the game launched: stop pretending to match on skill, which is far more theory than actuality, and start matching on playstyle. I would despise the wide skill ranges a lot less if my teammates were at least on the same page as me concerning match goals and strategies.

@Asmodeus566 Hey man! Hope you guys have been well around these parts, lol.

Match Making | EA Forums

32 Replies

reconzero
Seasoned Ace
1 year ago
@saurerDropsXXL

"BUT the crucial question is: how do the games feel until then and at the end?
A few good games and then a long period of total annihilation after 10 seconds? Or almost always an interesting, close game, with a few kills, in which you also lost, but didn't feel like you were playing against a superhuman with no chance?"

Very well put. I've said many times that it isn't whether you win or lose in a game. It's HOW you lose that sends people into fits of rage. But that's something I'm much more willing than you to put down to "the random and meaningless nature of the universe." Rather than evil or lazy matchmakers at Respawn. Although I have to admit that could still be the case. I don't think it is, but it could be.
Airish85
1 year ago
I played 2+2+2 hours of soloq ranked past weekend and managed to get a handful <5 of kills.
On Olympus I didnt get anything and just kept losing RP game after game.

I am saying it again. Its not really SBMM but EOMM. By throwing me a bone with a cracked duo every 5-6 games to run down the lobby for Top 3 finish and me doing 300 dmg + 4 participations + 2 assists is not what makes me think "Oh wow game feels super fun". So as an average player I feel like my playing is predetermined because even with poor matches I am pretty much on the same rank level as I was before the weekend.

Assumption of person playing ranked to achieve a certain rank and rigging game so that he plays as much as possible to gain it is what annoys me.

I am down to battle it out and just leave it there in my Gold 3 lobby if I feel like the players are on the same level as I am. No need to get Gold 2 or anything. Or if they feel like I should be at Silver I have no issues with that either if that gives me same skill level players to play with.
HappyHourSumwur
Seasoned Ace
1 year ago
@Airish85For me it isn't whether you win or lose or even how often you lose, it is how you lose. The number of games where I do well and feel like I contributed in a meaningful way is such a small portion of my solo queue games played. I get destroyed in humiliating fashion most of the time, do so-so and contribute a little occasionally, and win about as much as you'd expect all other things equal (5%). Even some of those wins don't feel good for the reason you say; I was carried and didn't really do much to help. In some cases I get carried and am obviously dead weight that my masters/pred teammates have to revive over and over again. That's almost worse than getting destroyed immediately in humiliating fashion.

So my solo queue experience boils down to doing well and feeling like I contributed about 3% of my games played. That's usually once every couple of hours and is the reason I stopped playing last week and probably won't jump back in until next season.
Airish85
1 year ago
@HappyHourSumwur Agreed 100%. Thats exactly what I meant with the game feeling so rigged.
HappyHourSumwur
Seasoned Ace
1 year ago
@Airish85 I can't shake the feeling that I'm just cannon fodder for streamer content.
Airish85
1 year ago
@HappyHourSumwur Streamers dont play on same lobbies as I do (Gold Ranked). 😃
Just played another set of games where I lost about 200 RP without a single kill.

I am 100% sure the EOMM tries go give me this "good game" every now and then but what the algorithm doesnt understand is that my playtime is very limited.
I might get 30min now, 1h later in the evening or 2h on a weekends etc. So if I join back later and play single Mixtape match as warmup that will most likely be my EOMM golden ticket and we can start the cycle from the start again.

Am I going to invest my precious relax gaming time by playing Apex with the very high risk of getting absolutely manured on for the first 5 games and then when EOMM decides to throw me a possibly correct (we will never know) lobby I get "different playstyle" jumpmaster dropping us to same spot with 4-5 other teams to fight over single floor Mozambique.

Answer is probably not very long.

(Off topic: Also this was not an issue before when placement ruled over kills in ranked. Now its YOLO jumpmaster every other ranked match and GG -40 back to the lobby.)
HappyHourSumwur
Seasoned Ace
1 year ago
@Airish85That's been my experience running solo queue in pubs for the last few seasons. I do well in 1 in 20 matches or so but the rest is just trash. Of those 5% I do well in I maybe contribute to the success about half the time. I have to play for hours to get good games that make me feel good about the experience.
Auntyentity
New Rookie
1 year ago
@HappyHourSumwur wrote:
@Airish85I can't shake the feeling that I'm just cannon fodder for streamer content.
It's easy to see this. I wouldn't put it past any game company for doing this as it'd be in their interest. Being a free game and streamers providing free marketing, it would be a perpetual close loop. I don't understand how they can provide a free game by selling skins alone.
reconzero
Seasoned Ace
1 year ago
@Airish85

"So as an average player I feel like my playing is predetermined...."

You nailed it here, although I would say that you don't even have to bring eomm (or even sbmm) into it at all. This is simply the nature of soloing any team-based game. If the matchmaking were completely random, I don't think the experience would be materially different. Could be wrong. Might not be. Who knows?

"Assumption of person playing ranked to achieve a certain rank and rigging game so that he plays as much as possible to gain it is what annoys me."

And there it is again. Perfect observation. The game wants you to KEEP PLAYING and therefore your rank grind will, by design, last as long as they can possibly make it last without having an effect on churn. There are so many other compelling reasons to turn one's back on the rank grind, but this alone would be enough for me to never set foot on a rank ladder ever again.

@HappyHourSumwur

"In some cases I get carried and am obviously dead weight that my masters/pred teammates have to revive over and over again. That's almost worse than getting destroyed immediately in humiliating fashion."

This is, in a nutshell, the problem with these wide skill range matches. You're expected to carry two low-skill teammates, or you're expected to have two masters drag you into one untenable situation after another, constantly scraping you up off the floor. The first situation I'll tolerate poorly, but the second will usually drive me to quit in the lobby. I don't want to watch them doing ten things per engagement that look like pure cheatery, and I also don't want to be babysat, especially if they have an attitude about it. And they ALWAYS have an attitude about it. I think it was @hayhor who once told the story of his two stack predator teammates who said, paraphrasing here, "Be quiet and try to keep up." And his response was, as I recall, exactly what mine would have been: "Here, watch how quiet I can be... as I quit on your sorry a**."

---------------------

I'll end this with the same call to the developer I've been making practically since the game launched: stop pretending to match on skill, which is far more theory than actuality, and start matching on playstyle. I would despise the wide skill ranges a lot less if my teammates were at least on the same page as me concerning match goals and strategies.
Airish85
1 year ago
@Airish85 wrote:
So if I join back later and play single Mixtape match as warmup that will most likely be my EOMM golden ticket and we can start the cycle from the start again.

Today I logged back in Apex for a few matches after not playing at all this week.
Wow guess what. Rusty me went on to drop 15 kills in a 50-15 TDM win with a Devo & Longbow and then get carried in two ranked matches for Top 3.
This game is rigged beyond my expectations.

I guess I am online again next weekend for a couple of matches LOL

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