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Re: Season 5 Pick Rates

First, I think everyone should understand that some abilities are broken just because the way they work, and some are not popular just because the way they work.

And second, obviously, popularity is not necessarily the same thing as OP.

In all games, the edgy, angsty, cool looking characters get picked more.  And if they have an okay, at least, ability they get picked a lot more.  The counter-argument to this is why isn't Revenant more popular then, and I'd argue he's probably more popular than he would be if he looked like a big fat circus top clown.  Okay, that's maybe too obvious.  But another reason is Revenant started this game weak for a long time and needed a massive buff just to bring him to par.  Wraith has always been strong, starting from way OP to where she is now, and she's a favorite for background story and all her aesthetic appeals.

Bloodhound, I'd argue, gets the same kind of love as Wraith aesthetically, but BH abilities are both not so obvious as to their use, and less prone to individual play.  Another thing players love in a team game, especially when team members let you down...but they'd love it anyway....is when they can play a character that has nothing to do with the team.  Pathfinder's design is exactly that way, all of PF's abilities useful to an individual even when running alone.  Octane is weak but loved for the same reason...his abilites really aren't that great but he's picked because people like to run team games solo.  Back to Bloodhound though....pretty good abilities, but definitely a character more useful on a team, so popular I'd argue but less so than Wraith.

Conversely, strong characters, or even characters who need a buff, but who shine when you play with a full team are just hammered on the list.  Wattson and Crypto show that, and frankly, that's why I think Loba places low.  She's new, I think people realize the bracelet isn't nearly as great as instantly traveling into another dimension like Wraith, and if you want Black Market to matter more, you need to work with your team to pick your drop points and loot to get ahead in the early and mid game.  Also not such a great ability in the end game.

Wattson, Crypto and Loba can all do so much better when you play with a team.  Crypto is really nothing without proper team play.

This is why you hear screaming about the nerfs, because they hurt the individual character's solo play more.  Notice nobody is asking for a zip line buff, or a portal buff.  They're mad that Octane has a low profile and not asking for jump pad to be more useful to the team.  Everyone wants to be a rock star, the irony being that if they played characters that did well with a team they might be the rock star.    But it's more like people just want to show off, and do whatever they want, and ignore playing with others which is why they get mad when the things that let them do that get nerfed.

I'll bring up my complaint again, Kings Canyon, the total Yolo map.  Now, you may like it as a map, but I promise that people who love to not play with teams also love this map because it practically asks you to not play with a team.  The reasons people say they hate WE and love KC are nearly perfectly in line with a playstyle that involves no team-play and communication whatsoever, because you'll do fine on KC by ignoring your team and running away from fights.

Back to the topic at hand though, because those people still play WE the same way too.  I love the ideas of Wraith and Pathfinder.  I happen to think the Pathfinder nerf was totally necessary.  At this point, though, I don't think any more nerfs are needed to either character.

What has to happen is that other characters need to be made stronger.

TEE ELL DEE ARR; No surprises here.

13 Replies

  • @KelRiever I like KC but it has nothing to do with playing solo as I prefer the team aspect in this game and I would guess it's the faster and more constant action that other people are drawn to on that map.

    Whatever your map preference, you should never abandon your team mates unless it's with randoms that you are confident is a no win scenario and not something I would advertise or advise others to do.

    You're like the kind of random that doesn't know how to play but instead of learning you make it my way or the high way leaving your team at a serious disadvantage the entire time so you can try and camp some RP.

    On topic - I doubt they will do any more nerfs but buff others and change the abilities a bit, maybe reduce the cd on path a small amount.
  • LordloshBang's avatar
    LordloshBang
    6 years ago

    And why should they reduce Pathfinder CD, when he is the second most picked legend, and its by far ?

    Mirage is lower by 4%, when he was buffed and reworked big time, which speaks for itself, how powerful Pathfinder still is.

    This should not be a 2 legend game again.

    Lets be real first 4 season, it was all about Path and Wraith.

    Season 5 is the most balanced as far as legends goes. Still Octane ultimate and head hitbox needs to be reworked, but other than that, legends are okay.

  • @LordloshBang It takes time for people to adjust to the new so pick rate doesn't necessarily determine current legend power balance and mirage still doesn't have abilities as useful to the team like PF.

    Imo legends aren't ok. Yes they are reasonably balanced and better than before but forward scout can't do his assigned role anymore due to needed nerfs, lifeline isn't the best combat medic, crypto should be able to control his drone while moving which would make him more viable ect.. just to name a few examples.
  • LordloshBang's avatar
    LordloshBang
    6 years ago

    I never said legends are perfectly balanced, but they are as balanced, as they ever was. This is the most balanced season so far.


    Octane is still bad, because of his ultimate and his hitbox head, Bangalore and Bloodhound are blqh, Crypto is very situational, but the rest are good.

    As far as Combat Medic, Scout, and so on, this is just a nickname. What soldier Bangalore is? With his abilities, a scared one ? Her ultimate is crap, her passive is so so, and her tactical is at best situational.

    People should look at the other legends, before crying for a certain legend, aka Pathfiner mains.

  • @LordloshBangThey aren't nicknames but designated roles that let you know how you'll contribute to your team depending on your choice and they are slightly deceptive as things stand when the shielded fortress aka main tank can support and rez you as well if not better than a combat medic.

    Bangalore is pretty balanced and well rounded imo but I agree this has been the closest they have been since release.

    Problem is the majority of people were playing Path or Wraith.. I'm not debating if he needed a nerf or not as I have mentioned that in another thread but when you cut the most used legends ability so drastically that he a) can't fulfil his role and b) takes away the fun factor associated with that legend then there will inevitably be pushback from the community even if the nerfs were justified.

  • Axs5626Sxa5001's avatar
    Axs5626Sxa5001
    6 years ago

    @apostolateofDOOMI tend to agree.

    I guess I’m still sort of shocked on the severity of the nerf. It’s like, wait, what was Pathfinder’s role supposed to be? If the current version of Path was how the devs intended him to be then they were way way way off with the 15 second cooldown.

    And if the devs decide to stick with the 35 second cooldown, I will be fine with that. But that would raise some questions. Mainly:

    Why is the grapple hook the longest cooldown of all the “escape” tacs, when it is absolutely the most difficult to use effectively? And even once it’s “mastered”, it’s not all that much better than Loba’s bracelet or Wraith’s void— both of which have faster cooldowns. Shouldn’t we make the easy to use tac the one with the longer cooldown?

  • BaldWraithSimp's avatar
    BaldWraithSimp
    6 years ago

    @Axs5626Sxa5001 wrote:

    @apostolateofDOOMI tend to agree.
    Why is the grapple hook the longest cooldown of all the “escape” tacs, when it is absolutely the most difficult to use effectively? And even once it’s “mastered”, it’s not all that much better than Loba’s bracelet or Wraith’s void— both of which have faster cooldowns. Shouldn’t we make the easy to use tac the one with the longer cooldown?


    Wraith has a 35-sec cooldown!!!!!

    Pathy has a 35-sec cooldown!!!!!

    35=35

    Loba has 30 sec. It's five-sec difference cuz Grapple>Teleport. 

    Do you want to compare Octane's cooldown with Pathfinder next??

  • LordloshBang's avatar
    LordloshBang
    6 years ago

    Sorry, but NO. Its exactly a nickname. What role Revenenat or Octane have if we go by your logic? Its just a nickname for god sake.

    Just because you put a scout in the name, does mean your movement ability should be 100x time better then the rest.

    And you didn`t answer what professional soldier role mean then?

    Bangalore has zero, ZERO pick in any competitive play. Her pick rate over high-to top level of gameplay(when they play serious), its still close to zero.

    Actually the only notable streamer i watch and is maining her is ShivFPS.

    I also main Bangalore. Right now Wraith and Bangalore is my main, but i`m focused on my Bangalore.

    And yeah i think they should balance the other one, when they look at her. And their level should be the same as Bangalore in terms of power. 

    But Bangalore actually not have team abilities that are useful. Gibralter do what she does, but he is doing it way better. Same goes for the Wraith. 
    Why would you pick a Bangalore over Gibralter or over Wraith ?

    Why would you pick Bloodhound, Octane or Mirage in top level plays? 

    As far as Pathfinder CD nerf from 35 to 15 seconds, its that much, because Pathfinder was allowed to stay super strong for way too much time. His CD nerf should have come long way ago.

    Its obvious not only from the pick rate, but from the W and K/D/R  as well. Respawn have the data and can see what is going on.

    Yeah on the first look a jump from 15 to 35 seconds looks huge. 

    But the thing with the Wraith is the same, but the difference is Wraith was nerfed over time, but the end product is the same. It was nerf after nerf after nerf in some times, while they allowed Pathfinder to stay way too strong for way too long, and now they bring him down.

    Pathfinder grapple is insane, because it can be very powerful for a lot of situation. Examples:
    You want to escape

    You want to go to high ground

    You want to chase

    You want to push

    Very useful in this situation, both are fighting behind covers, but you broke and armor and you decide to push, you just grapple above them and they won`t even notice in most of the time, and you get a lot of free shots over them. In this situation this is priceless, and can`t compare it to anyone. You can`t do that with Wraith or Loba.

    And in many more ingame situation.


    Majority of the people were playing Wraith and Pathfinder because they were super strong, and they still are, and they are still played.

  • @LordloshBang Bangalore is a professional soldier who runs fast when getting shot (I mean if I was trained in the army and getting shot at then I would run faster too) can call in an artillery strike to support and the ability to smokescreen your operations. What soldiers do in the field so it fits.

    It's a description of the character, Octane is a speed demon cause he runs fast and the same with Revenant being a synthetic nightmare. How else are you to describe a robot killing machine that turns into something otherworldly. I'm not saying PF should be 100x better than the rest or the nerf wasn't justified because imo to a certain extent it was, so you don't need to explain to me what PF can do with his abilities... 😉

  • Axs5626Sxa5001's avatar
    Axs5626Sxa5001
    6 years ago
    @BaldWraithSimp Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up. I thought the Void tac was slightly less than 35.

    I still stand by my statement regarding the grappling hook skill curve. I absolutely see how it can be more versatile than the Void tac and Loba’s bracelet, but people tend to OVER-praise it (these people usually aren’t Path mains).
  • LordloshBang's avatar
    LordloshBang
    6 years ago

    Your talking about role, and you still couldn`t explain the role of the legends i ask.

    Yeah you can invest a story for all of the classes, but that doesn`t mean their nickname is there for a role or for some other reason, than just being a nickname.

    Yeah of course they are nickname will have something to do with the legend, its obvious.

    But saying Pathy should be able to be 10x more mobile than the rest of the cast, because he have a scout in his nickname is not right.

  • The roles are literally just a rough overview of each legends character essentially, obviously some are going to be more clear cut than others due to the nature of each legend.

    Using Pathfinder as an example seeing as he manages to scout his way into most topics lately... is able to scout ahead with ease,use his passive to determine the next circle, find a create a literal path for his team with his ult.

    I wouldn't treat these descriptions as a means to play each legend but it certainly does apply accurately to some.

  • @LordloshBangThe role of a soldier is varied just like Bangs abilities and the others explain what they do and contribute. I never said Path should.

    @MandatoryIDtag''scout his way into most topics lately'' That fits his description perfectly. 😛

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