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BownrInSweatPanz's avatar
BownrInSweatPanz
Seasoned Veteran
2 years ago

Attack Helis still aren't worth flying after buffs

While experimenting with the helis and looking at the history of changes, I feel like so far the attack heli hasn't seen recovery after their fall from grace with the introduction of Stealth Helis and the buffs dice tried to give them.

I feel like the main problem with them is that whatever the apache/hokum can do, the nightbird, Huron, and Hannibal can do far better.

In the arsenal department,

  1. Against other helis and aircraft: The nightbird has miniguns and 20mm with infinite ammo and the stealths have HMG and cannons too. Only the hokum has a weapon able to go toe to toe with stealths and transport helis, and possibly nightbirds with a good amount of skill with the 30mm cannons. problem is the cannons are unlocked very late in leveling the hokum (Which the Apache doesn't have), leaving the hokum and apache left with using rocket pods which only the 127mm and TOWs are okay but are misaligned on the apache and TOWs are buggy. AA missiles also feel completely useless due to flares on all aircraft that you won't be able to get a lock on before you go down because the other heli has MGs or Miniguns that ignore flares.

  2. Against tanks: the Stealth chopper does it better with AGMs and bombs out of the box, and later on TOWs that deal significant damage to ground armor, infantry, and aircraft with the height advantage. Even the nightbird can take down armor with AGMs and 20mms with a skilled pilot. the attack chopper's smart rockets don't deal much damage, and the 70mm rockets neither as well, leaving only the 127mm, TOWS and AGMs to deal with armor, which seems to be the niche the attack choppers are going to fill if not for the other choppers doing the same role with more versatility, or bells and whistles like Stealth mode or maneuverability.

  3. Against infantry: Here I feel the nightbird especially stole the role of Farming infantry for a while before DICE nerfed the 70mm rockets to be ineffective on the nightbird which (Surprise!) also affected the Attack choppers. I do feel the 70mm deserved the nerf but I also feel it should have never been added to the nightbird at launch, a chopper with high mobility able to mow down infantry really caused a lot of problems and frustration to the playerbase. Aside from the rocket pods, miniguns, hmgs and bombs just do better damage and are more reliable than what the Attack choppers offer

There are other problems with the Hokum and Apache other than the arsenal, they handle worse with more weight, unable to maneuver like all other choppers, and the gunner experience is horrible with the 30mm overheat penalty longer than you can even fire before you can overheat and no secondary weapon like the stealth chopper EMP nade which has great support utility for a gunner seat.

There is a lot of ways that can go right or wrong with fixing the heli issue, such as making attack heli mobility comparable to the rest is a step in the right direction regardless of the situation. fixing the arsenal is more tricky such as buffing the 70mm rocket pods means the nightbird can farm infantry again.

 

Personally,

  • I'd replace the 70mm Rocket pod on the nightbird with AA heat seekers. the rockets overstep the line of the attack chopper role before the nerf (Let's be honest, they are useless now) and buffing it may put it to be also unbalanced, replacing it at least gives it a more counter aircraft role that it excels in (Though AMGs may still be the only missile worth running because of how bad AA missiles are even in past titles from my research)

    • buffing 70mm assuming it is attack chopper exclusive also runs into issues with being OP, but at least the chopper won't have the mobility of the nightbird or able to evade lockons like Stealths, which leaves only flares and below radar which besides those would mean they are easier to take down by infantry or AA

  • For the rest of the rockets, smart rockets need to increase damage as they have no use compared to the later 127mm rockets, AA rockets need some buffs as in all choppers they are a waste of a slot.

  • The gunner seat needs tweaks with damage and overheating

    • Also please add TOWs or TV missiles or something for the gunners

  • Mobility to be on par or close to the rest of the choppers, specifically turning in the air, airspeed and weight of the helis.

  • add a 30mm cannon equivalent on the Apache
  • fix the rocket misalignment issue

I did consider moving the nightbird to the same category as the transport helis so the attack and stealth helis are more isolated in options but it comes with some ramifications such as players taking the nightbird over the transport helis or having both the hind/condor AND nightbird on the field at the same time being too much on the field (if you can have 1 of each like in Vehicle superiority modes)

 

If you have feedback, let me know since I'm not much of a vehicle expert or a veteran for battlefield games, I try my best to play with each vehicle and equivalents between the games I own (BF4,V, 1 and 2042) and research on the history and what people say about issues.

25 Replies

  • MLJUC's avatar
    MLJUC
    Seasoned Rookie
    2 years ago

    Agree with you on manuverability and speed. The attack heli is the slowest aircraft in the sky in this game. It needs to be put on the same level as the stealth heli at least. It currently has very little options going against a nightbird, as the nb pilot can fly around the attack heli in circles. Distance also doesn't help much as the nb can either retreat or bring the fight to the AH and rip it apart. Ad long as the AH lacks speed and manuverability, it will always lose.

    I also agree on the 127mm needing a damage buff. The AH is meant to be the anti vehicle heli, however its main anti vehicle rockets do little damage to vehicles, specially tanks and EBAA Wildcats. The alignment issue also needs to be fixed on the Warchief.

    The AH has plenty of threats it has to deal with, including infantry AA, Liz guided rockets, Wildcats from across the map, other helis, tanks with good aim, recoiless with good aim and jets, to name some. A movement buff is the least needed. Getting damage buff and AA range increase would be a great plus.

  • AlkaniusRUS's avatar
    AlkaniusRUS
    2 years ago

    @Padding_Ur_Stats wrote:

    All the time that I play in BF2045, I filled my S135 level mainly on helicopters. I can say with confidence that far from being a weak pilot. In one game on NightBird in 64 helmet mode, I get 30-40 frags with a pair without death. But I've never been able to do so much in an attack helicopter. Because after 20+ kills, the enemy team will turn on you and every second AA gunner runs around and locks you. Either you will be killed by the TOR railgun, or you will be driven to the rear where you will sit the rest of the time, or you will be pecked by the Jet Fighter.
    But most of all, it infuriates when they compare the number of kills in a helicopter. Most of the games in the top have always been infantry who stuffed 10+ frags more than me when I took the Nightbird
    So the balance is a delicate matter if you look at the number of kills of equipment and infantry

  • Man_iLoveFishing's avatar
    Man_iLoveFishing
    Seasoned Ace
    2 years ago

    Has anyone ever thought about how many deaths should vehicles have? Rarely see someone go with 0 deaths, i die usually 1-4 times daily and 0 deaths round maybe 2-3 times in a week. And dying 5 times in one game is about 9 mins of waiting time. Round lasts 20-25mins. Mostly i die to lizz that surprises me in close range or tor tank that sits in spawn and racks up with 30kills by not moving a inch that is protected by wildcat in field somewhere close to it. Lockfest lately has gone to absolute oblivion, meaning in some games you can't even enter the field, some maps have objects/buildings. I play nightbird.

    Anyways again reminding to OP. Apache, hokum are deadly asf to nb if you know how to play and staying awake (following air situations). If you let bird close to you and above, you are toasted (if you are alone). But if you have gunner on board, you have upperhand.

    Let me remind you, AC is more for destroying vehicles, it does it faster than bird. Bird racks a lot kills on infantry due to it's movement and small size. But i.e if tank player knows how to engage defense order (thermal and aps). Fight lasts way too long, eventually bird will win but it literally might take couple minutes and that is too long time for being in one place, if you are somewhere alone, that's on you buddy. And i've encountered some who does that perfectly and backfires with tanks mg which actually sometimes makes me to pull back for cover cause of  AGMs loading time.

    What i can do is to use TGM and NTW and sometimes i do, but it's not worth it cause of randoms spawning in and taking helicopter over.

  • Prof3ss0r_M1k3's avatar
    Prof3ss0r_M1k3
    2 years ago

    @Man_iLoveFishing wrote:

    Has anyone ever thought about how many deaths should vehicles have? Rarely see someone go with 0 deaths, i die usually 1-4 times daily and 0 deaths round maybe 2-3 times in a week. And dying 5 times in one game is about 9 mins of waiting time. Round lasts 20-25mins. Mostly i die to lizz that surprises me in close range or tor tank that sits in spawn and racks up with 30kills by not moving a inch that is protected by wildcat in field somewhere close to it. Lockfest lately has gone to absolute oblivion, meaning in some games you can't even enter the field, some maps have objects/buildings. I play nightbird.

    Anyways again reminding to OP. Apache, hokum are deadly asf to nb if you know how to play and staying awake (following air situations). If you let bird close to you and above, you are toasted (if you are alone). But if you have gunner on board, you have upperhand.

    Let me remind you, AC is more for destroying vehicles, it does it faster than bird. Bird racks a lot kills on infantry due to it's movement and small size. But i.e if tank player knows how to engage defense order (thermal and aps). Fight lasts way too long, eventually bird will win but it literally might take couple minutes and that is too long time for being in one place, if you are somewhere alone, that's on you buddy. And i've encountered some who does that perfectly and backfires with tanks mg which actually sometimes makes me to pull back for cover cause of  AGMs loading time.

    What i can do is to use TGM and NTW and sometimes i do, but it's not worth it cause of randoms spawning in and taking helicopter over.


    perhaps, and i'm going on the spawn mechanics, maybe people weren't meant to only play vehicles and they were supposed to share them and not have one person always take that slot 🤷‍♂️

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