[Discussion Thread] Core Feedback - Specialists

@MarvelousXTYou specifically bought a BF game because you wanted it to not be like BF? I'm sorry but stuff like this is why devs I don't think should listen to the feedback of the maybe like 15-20k people currently playing the game, and instead listen to the feedback of the millions of people that bought and played hundreds of hours of games like BF3, 4 and 1. Either you appease the dwindling fanbase or you bust your * off and make changes to bring back the existing playerbase. 2042 feels like it was developed specifically to create a whole new audience while ditching the existing one. We want to play Battlefield, not CoD, not Fortnite, not Valorant, not Overwatch. If we want that gameplay we will play those games. By changing this stuff it just has diluted battlefield into being a shell of what the previous games were, and 2042 seems like a AAA copycat game trying to chase every current FPS trend from the past few years, and failing at every step.

Watching the video...

"Classes" already existed, this is legit just a UI update to more clearly communicate which "class" each specialist fell under. Purely cosmetic and not something that should have taken any design time.

Visual updates are nice and all, but they don't change the "feel" of the specialists.

So what are the actual proposed changes? Because I'm not seeing anything mentioned in the video beyond the minor cosmetic change to how specialist "classes" are communicated?

so why does anyone think giving assault the med-pen and the armor plate is a good idea?

now any player who wants an easy 20% flat health increase will have that and infinite self healing.....
can't wait for McKays pickrate to approach 75%

Main feedback: 

Finally! I'm all for classes and I approve and applaud this initiative. Good work on that. Thank you! 

Feedback 1:

Weapons should be restricted.

Reason: we are talking about a sense of function and purpose when we talk class. 

The assault class should NOT have access to sniper rifles. 

It is bad when a McKay or Sundance go to the most unexpected places and snipe. They are not functioning as intended. 

There is a difference between being creative/flexible vs exploiting, disturbing, annoying or cheating.

McKay or Sundance can still reach a location like that and let a squad mate spawn on them and place a beacon in this high and unexpected location to spawn again. That is okay if it is achieved with teamwork. But the assault class should not do all that alone. Camping is not ASSAULT.

Teamwork should always be rewarded, so, ok if they find exploits, such as like how bad it was when people would go on top of Operations Locker. However, that was too much, especially with mortars available. Very annoying. 

Currently on Breakthrough on Kaleidoscope, the defenders can go with Sundance and fly across the map to stay behind the attacking team and snipe them without any cover. She can spawn with a beacon and a sniper rifle, so she can do all that alone. With the class system she would not be able to do that, which is amazing by itself, but she could snipe until she has no more bullets. This a situation that should be avoided because it is annoying and unfair, as there is no counter tactic because the attacking team does not have a helicopter and cannot reach the same building. It is worse because it takes away the focus of the attacking team and suddenly, 10 players stop attacking and wait for the Sundance to peak. 

So, no sniper rifles for assault. 

The DMRs should keep these players entertained if they want to do that. There are also adjustments to make to long distance play with high power rounds and other customizations to adapt to each play style that are more than enough, but the extremes should not be exploited.

So it is not like there would be no more flexibility for them. Restricting sniper rifles brings some balance to this annoyance. 

When a recon goes into assault mode with a PBX, that is a different story. Casper would be at a disadvantage because his traits are not as good as the grappling hook or the belt grenades for this function, so SMGs and assault rifles should be allowed for recons.

It is not a big deal, but I think that this will avoid unnecessary annoyances, possible exploits (new maps, you never know what kind of crevices they can find), and it will force the game core values to be respected, which is team play, class purpose and objective. 

Feedback 2:

Loadouts per class (or change Angel's crates)

We should have loadouts under each class. 

We had 6 universal loadouts slots. With the arrival of Lis, some of these were unusable. Angel crates were not as useful for my List as they were for others. My AA and M5 loadout were showing up in red, so that meant that in some instances I could not switch to SMGs. 

That made my Lis less interesting than Angel. With him,. I could spawn with a beacon then get a recoiless, then an FXM-33 AA. That is what made Angel too strong IMO, by the way, and the classes will fix that. 

So there are two possible suggestions here: One is working on the menus, the other is tailoring Angel's crates. 

Like in some other games available out there, each "Loadout" can be a "class Loadout" that opens up when you class is selected. For instance, if I have McKay selected, when going to loadouts the game should show me the assault class loadouts. Otherwise, like when with Lis is selected, the loadouts would not work in it intended ways such as being a quick selection of a set. I have a mines Loadout and a Beacon Loadout. I would have to change the gadgets and weapons instead with McKay selected, and I would have to do that every single time I change classes. 

It would be worse in game with a Loadout crate. I could have loadouts that are completely unusable, depending on who I am using, and that would defeat the purpose of the loadouts, as well completely affecting Angel and the usability of crates (that is why I believe you may have discussed this already, or you will break the loadouts). 

So perhaps Angel's crates could become a weapon + gadget 1 + gadget 2 selection crate, or it show the class loadouts. It is interesting then, that picking items from the crates could take longer, so the crates have to be in more inconspicuous location and away from the enemy. It changes the gameplay by a bit.

Alternatively, class loadouts for the 4 classes would require 24 loadouts, 6 for each, and it just requires some coding that won't be affecting the menus. I believe this should be the way to go. 

Feedback 3:

Common and universal gadgets

I don't see why the engineers should not be able to select the IBA armor plate. Especially Irish, Boris and Lis. Perhaps make some gadgets universal or common. 

Possible candidates are armor plate, C5, beacon, or whatever new gadgets to be discussed.  

The definition of "Common" would be something such as the armor plate being available to assault, support and engineers, and beacon to support and recon, whilst "Universal" would be like the M5 being available to all classes. 

Feedback 4:

Paik is a mix of assault and recon

Just bring her back to the drawing board. Perhaps she needs an adjustment on her trair/skill. Maybe she could spot a longer distance with lower frequency ping, shorter spot time if she is actually recon.

Paik could still stay in-between classes, that is not an issue. But if unchanged, she is more of an assault than recon. Perhaps she should be put under the assault umbrella.

If she is going to be a recon, that means that her gadgets will be restricted to a recon class, then she will suffer a bit. She is not going to be neither a good recon, nor a good assault.  The gadget restrictions will change the current balance of the game and how favorite she is among the specialists for a certain style of players (everything will change anyway, so changes in balance are expected and this is not an issue). 

Currently, she is an awesome assault. She goes into a room full of smoke and has a great advantage vs all other characters. The small area for which her ping/scan is currently more suitable for an assault. What good would her trait do to her being 150 m from the enemy if the scan area is like 10m or less. Her usage or classification would be less of an issue if some universal or common gadgets exist (see feedback #3), as she could use a recoiless or something more assault-like. As she falls between the two classes, she would benefit of some flexibility with the gadgets.  

Otherwise, if she is a recon, perhaps her traits would need more adjustment.

It is mostly classification issue. But I do believe she would lose her assault capabilities if she gets limited by assault gadgets. 

Or see feedback below.

Feedback 5:

Beacon vs Soflam: Beacon is a mix of assault and recon tool

Beacon is a mix of assault and recon tool. Beacon could be an universal gadget (see feedback 3). It would be a very good gadget for Paik. 

Soflam, on the other hand, is a very exclusive recon gadget. Very uninstering gadget. We have shared feedback on how it should allow lock on stealth helicopters, as a manual painting of a target. It is IR target designator in real life and it should work for any target in the visible spectrum for the Soflam.

I see the beacon as a tool to play the objective. I place it between two flags, after a flank to be one step closer to the flag... Some people see it as a tool for a sniper who worked hard and walked a long way to get to a neat and sweet sniping spot, so he won't have to work that hard again. So I understand it is kinda hard to think about the beacon.

So bring back to the discussion table of it is not SOFLAM that should be the recon gadget, and who could chose the beacon.

IMO, some universal gadgets would be the way to go, but I am inclined to think that the SOFLAM should get more love and the beacon should maybe be given To the assault or support classes instead of the recon, in this case should get the SOFLAM.  

Other adjustments to the beacon should make it more viable then, such as not being destroyed if you change classes, then one spawn as a recon could allow the beacon to function as an assault tool as a shortcut to the objective. It should remain there for a few respawns. Paik as is could be a good option, but I don't think the gadget restrictions would help her in being an assault-like class. 

Feedback 6:

Bring mortar back from vault 

Yes, that. Add mortar back to support classes. They look like they lost too much attack potential now. 

Feedback 7:

Rao will be weak

Rao is already not one of favorite specialist. With the arrival of the stealth helicopter, it made more sense to use him. But that was if he could select the fxm AA rocket. Now if all he can do is hack, it would be pretty boring to play him and not get to hit a single rocket in the helicopter he hacked. 

Therefore either there is some flexibility in the gadgets with some common or universal gadgets, or his hacking trait would require some adjustments, as it would require much more teamwork and coordination, so someone not playing with friends and not using the voice chat would rarely get an assist point from a hack. 

I rarely notice when something is hacked. If I'm playing on exposure and a Rao uphill hacked a helicopter who flies away from him, by the time I notice the helicopter, notice that it is hacked, switch gadget and lock on, the hack will be already worn off. 

So if Rao cannot use AA rockets, that would require an adjustment to the hack duration or firewall duration. Probably tuning both sides of the hack/firewall together by a tiny bit at each iteration would be good if Rao remains as recon and cannot use AA rockets.

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Please, do not forget that we asked for a server browser a million times. 

I like the default tool but I would not restrict gadgets.   I think you will find the repair tool is one most people will not choose.   You may be inadvertently disinsentivising the engineer class without knowing.  People choose what gets them kills or experience and the repair tool does neither.

That being said, I think DICE is missing (or ignoring) a game change that will focus specialist abilities and gadgets, Auto Regeneration. 

Yes, it will require pilots/ground to be better at what they do, but isnt that the point?  No letting the game mechanics advantages lower the skill base?

Remove Auto Regeneration from infantry.  This will change player focus.

1. It will make Falck's stylette more valuable.  Instead of people playing Falck for the self heal, give more experience to the stylette healing.
2. It will make the med pen a real choice for individuals
3. It will make the med crate a real choice.

Allow support to use their med pens on other players.   Since only Falck revives at 100%, let Angel/New Specialist revive at 50% and pen you for the rest. 

Remove Auto Regeneration from Vehicles.  This will change player focus.

1. It will make the repair tool more valuable
2. It will make the repair system loadout for the vehicle more valuable
3. If these changes occur, vehicle destruction would increase.  Rollback vehicle in play counts.

I would change Engineer passive to boost the speed of healing the repair tool gives by 15% for the first engineer and an additional 2% for each additional engineer.  Except for the onboard healing system, all repairs by engineers must be done stationary and on ground.  As a passenger, the engineer can repair on the go.  For sake of discussion, a passenger is in a vehicle but has no offensive abilities from the vehicle.  If you're sitting in a turret, by default, you're not a passenger, you're an operator.

Assault classes ignore armor (this is only 3 classes people).   Armor is still effective against non assault classes.  This will also magnify the support classes healing.  Assault classes start with armor.  Once gone, its gone until a redeployment.   Healing does not repair armor.  Rollback Angels armor ability.

I believe Paik to be OP atm.  Rollback changes is enough.   Rollback Casper changes.  The only change I think that matters is the slower speed the drone moves when packed with C5.  A brick of C4 is 1.5 lbs.  Limit total weight of a drone to 4.5 lbs but slow movement by 11% per brick.   This will eliminate the ability to carry a person.  Set every person to 125 lbs for code issues relating to weight (you can alter weight if future coding will take it into consideration).

For the Recon people, when they throw a prox sensor or use a SOFLAM, they get a .5 increase in range of detection.  

I keep hearing that Battlefield is a team game.   But when it comes to people wants and desires, it usually is to boost their individual power because most do not play as a team.   The above changes will magnify the team orientation the game is supposed to inspire.  It will force a more cooperative environment.  If you go down this road, VOIP communication (like you have in Apex squads) will be an absolute must.  There are other changes I would suggest that would force players to use the above abilities more, but those changes are more of a game play focus then a specialist focus, so I will withhold them here. 

I never bought the game If I know soon this game will become like any other previous Battlefield titles.

Then go play CoD, cause you're clearly not a BF fan