After puting many hours into the beta, I came to one conclusion. Specialists suck! They make the game unrealistic in every way, they don't make sense, and this game didn't feel like a battlefield game because of them. I personally feel they should scrap the entire specialist system and bring back the normal battlefield class system.
Nope, I enjoyed the beta already very much. I'm curious how this new try out of Dice will work in the final game. I guess there will be some balance challenges, but I think Dice will work them out. I'm afraid I'm going to make a lot of hours in this game. Cheers
@carsono311 wrote:
@dirtytamatoSpecialists are more “realistic” than classes, truly.
They are merely a different form of the class system and I have yet to hear a valid, coherent argument against the concept of specialists.
Most people just don’t like them for emotional or nostalgic reasons, which is fine, but that does not really invalidate the reality that they are not all that different from classes…
@carsono311 I loath Specialists for actual game play reasons. You cannot identify friend from foe, it destroys the 2 decade long paper/rock/scissors balancing via COD's create-a-class concept, you have no idea which teammate is carrying ammo/health/reps, and this leads to everybody creating the most self centered lone wolf load outs which further contributes to lessening the teamwork.
I have a yet to see any reason beyond trend chasing and monetization that explains why Battlefield was suddenly turned into a Hero Shooter.
@ragnarok013
- IFF is simply a visibility issue, not really a conceptual problem.
- Okay, yes. The potential balancing issues could be a problem, but it is not for certain yet.
- If you mean the general, 64-player team, then I guess I will agree that being able to identify who can resupply , heal , etc. at a glance is a problem. However, in a pre-made group / squad, this is moot.
Now, as to why they moved away from the class system... I cannot offer anything other than what you say. The only possibility I could possibly give is perhaps that this was seen as a chance to innovate, but my gut tells me you are correct...
@carsono311 wrote:
@ragnarok013
- IFF is simply a visibility issue, not really a conceptual problem.
- Okay, yes. The potential balancing issues could be a problem, but it is not for certain yet.
- If you mean the general, 64-player team, then I guess I will agree that being able to identify who can resupply , heal , etc. at a glance is a problem. However, in a pre-made group / squad, this is moot.
Now, as to why they moved away from the class system... I cannot offer anything other than what you say. The only possibility I could possibly give is perhaps that this was seen as a chance to innovate, but my gut tells me you are correct...
@carsono311 you cannot balance a game around pre-made squads when the average player is playing alone in a PUG squad. IFF has a solution by faction locking specialists or even better giving each specialist a faction look and faction voice lines but DICE didn't even mention considering such a COA so we have to assume the worst case scenario that they aren't looking at real solutions just their "IFF lighting" that will still get you killed in a split second gun fight since you team still looks exactly like the enemy team.
@Tee_Doff2369I said exactly what I meant to say.
"...What makes a class? Previously it was gun, gadgets and armour. Specialists can have any gun, any gadget and their armour tells you nothing about them..... "
What makes a class is the combat role it performs, which was in the name. Those roles can and will still exist within the game, but there is simply more freedom and variety within and between them.
"...like how do you encourage the use of ammo/medikits over more fun/solo oriented gadgets I e. RPGs?..."
Ah yes, the age old question of Battlefield (and team-building in general): How do we make inherently selfish individuals behave and perform as a team? I do not believe Specialists are going to influence this problem one way or another. Those players that enjoy and participate in the team aspects of the game will continue to do so, while others will not.
"...This removes a tactical element that I liked that they can't get back."
Target prioritization is important, no doubt. However simply knowing how to deal with an enemy at a glance (no matter the range, many times) is unrealistic and in my opinion, stale over time. I would argue that this is one of, if not the most important, points of weapon optics... I will agree in general that this point is a valid concern overall though, since I have not seen consistent draw distances (and only on one map) that make this reliable enough.
Lastly, yes the meta game will be a bit crazier in Battlefield 2042, I agree. Constant tweaking has been part of most Battlefield games though and my only real hope is that EA DICE have not bitten off more than they can (or want) to chew... we will see.
@dirtytamato If think in this way, jump from a jet and blow a enemy with a rpg is not much realistic, c'mmon bro, over realism is not a argument for this is not the propose from this game, never was and is not a sim
@ragnarok013The IFF is a problem, no doubt. I am worried about how they will fix it based on what we have seen and their... track record. They could certainly have implemented distinctive appearances and/or voice lines as you mention... but here we are.
Balance is going to be a factor no matter what.
However, I do still see the above issues as separate and distinct problems from the Specialists concept. Related issues? Sure. So I guess I am being overly particular on this. I can summarize my thoughts as:
Specialists are not a problem to me, but their implementation is.
Although, I know many here will just say it's the same thing... lol
I agree with you. And dice needs to read these discussions cause there is a lot wrongs with specialists
@carsono311 wrote:
@ragnarok013The IFF is a problem, no doubt. I am worried about how they will fix it based on what we have seen and their... track record. They could certainly have implemented distinctive appearances and/or voice lines as you mention... but here we are.
Balance is going to be a factor no matter what.
However, I do still see the above issues as separate and distinct problems from the Specialists concept. Related issues? Sure. So I guess I am being overly particular on this. I can summarize my thoughts as:
Specialists are not a problem to me, but their implementation is.
Although, I know many here will just say it's the same thing... lol
@carsono311 the COD create-a-class (no class based weapon/gadget restrictions) will be a huge issue - maybe even bigger than the Specialists themselves because there's no way DICE can balance every permutation of Specialist/weapon/gadget that the Community can come up with. Historically DICE struggled balancing weapons and gadgets when they were restricted to classes which is a system that is arguably far more balanceable due to the restrictions.
