Helicopter balancing is Pathetic STILL.

I'm just curious, what's heli balance? Every inf to 1v1 and win it? It's mass destruction and even in description is written "soldier killer". Gee, If it would throw sticks at you it would be op cause it's freaking flying. Whole thread is pathetic and thinking monorail way.

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@Man_iLoveFishing wrote:

I'm just curious, what's heli balance? Every inf to 1v1 and win it? It's mass destruction and even in description is written "soldier killer". Gee, If it would throw sticks at you it would be op cause it's freaking flying. Whole thread is pathetic and thinking monorail way.

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We've been over this in other threads. You are a Heli main that doesn't want to have a good faith discussion about balancing. You want the Helis untouched, because you are one of the players that abuse it. At this point, I need to just make a copy paste response for when you inevitably show up.

Ground vehicles are inherently much easier to balance. In a Tank I have to worry about:

- Land Mines

- Rockets

- Turrets

- C5, especially by a Sundance or Mackay

- Heli's circle strafing me, faster then my turret speed, higher then my main gun

- Smoke breaks lock-ons for only a couple of seconds

- Ground vehicles need to stay in-bounds

- If I get stuck on any geometry, it takes forever to get moving again. The maps are VERY cluttered in A LOT of areas

- They're generally slow

- Javelin

- Snipers

- Drones

- Stealth Heli disabling you for an eternity

- Grenades

- EMP Grenades

Now let's compare that to something that can fly:

- You can go out of bounds

- Once you get locked on, you just flare and retreat. While flaring you get like a 5 second protection, and it regenerates in about 10 seconds?

- You pick when you want to fight

- You pick where you want to fight

- Don't have to worry about mines

- Don't have to worry about geometry

- Don't have to worry about C5

- Don't have to worry about rockets besides just AA, but that's been limited by the class rework. Liz is NOT a serious threat to Helicopters.

- Transports can be healed from within

If I was going 60-100 and 2 every game in a Tank, I would have no problem admitting that it needs to be balanced. I have gone 40-100 and 1 from time to time, but everything has to line up perfectly for that to happen. My team needs to be competent in the Air and on the ground. Usually when I'm getting really big numbers like 100-1 it's because the match started off being half AI. It's not something I can consistently do. I was ranked fairly high when I used to main tanks in BF3 and BF4. I'm only saying that because I feel like I'm a competent Tank player. 

The fundamental issue is that when one person happens to be good at particular thing in a game, and there is no actual hard counter for it, then it's not a balanced game. I'm sure that I could be a decent pilot if I actually tried, I don't have interest in doing so. That doesn't take away from the fact it's not balanced however. I fly quadcopters IRL and in sims and I can literally do any maneuver a Pro can do. I just don't find flying Helicopters in BF that satisfying. I play Battlefield games for Infantry and Tanks. I also understand that some people really do love playing Air Vehicles, and I don't want them taken out of the game or completely nerfed. I want vehicles to be potent in BF, but I don't think a single person, or two, should have access to a tool where they can just dominate the lobby. That's poor game design.

Getting farmed with no way of fighting back is NOT FUN and it's most certainly not good game design. Balance is what makes a game interesting and fun for the majority of any player base. Any game that veers away from that philosophy is doomed.

@RaginSam
to be fair, I do not see those 100-1 you talk about, especially not in 2042 right now.
They existed in previous modern BF games which had even fewer AA options that did not depend on a lock on.

You need some absolutely crazy discrepancy between the ability of the pilot and the fundamental cognitive abilities of the enemy team. The pilot generally avoids death, but to reap 100 people in the process is really unlikely

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@UP_Hawxxeye wrote:

@RaginSam
to be fair, I do not see those 100-1 you talk about, especially not in 2042 right now.
They existed in previous modern BF games which had even fewer AA options that did not depend on a lock on.

You need some absolutely crazy discrepancy between the ability of the pilot and the fundamental cognitive abilities of the enemy team. The pilot generally avoids death, but to reap 100 people in the process is really unlikely

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I've seen plenty of pilots do it in the past. I'm not saying they're currently doing that at the moment. Historically Helicopters have been over-tuned was my general sentiment. Have they ever under performed? They're usually the outlier.

My problem right now is mostly with the Attack Heli being too powerful against ground vehicles and also the Wildcat being nerfed too harshly. That's the most glaring issue with balancing. The rest of everything I stated is true, but it was more about things to keep in mind when balancing them.

There's a desired outcome when designing a game, and it's expected to be played a certain way. There should be hard counters, like for example, the Wildcat SHOULD be a hard counter to an Aircraft within it's range. They should have to avoid it, not just go directly towards it and win a 1v1. They should have to rely on the rest of the team to do their job and attack that Wildcat in order to free up the air space. Heli pilots keep talking about teamwork, but they don't really mean it. They want Heli's to be self reliant and be able to go wherever, whenever they please. They also want to have a get out of jail free card that regenerates incredibly quickly.

@RaginSam
Yeah I agree that I have seen it in the past, especially in past games.
But since this is not the current issue, it does not help the case at hand.

As I have said before I agree that the Wildcat was nerfed too much and that it needs to be stronger vs aircraft that get close to it. Including giving it APS.

So I would like to see the wildcat being much stronger within ~200m and weaker at 500+m. It is really annoying when a vehicle sitting at the spawn that the enemy ground forces cannot reach can reach almost all the map

I play AA main daily, I have ~3000 kills in Wildcat and I couldn't believe they skipped the wildcat in update 6.0, How is that even possible ? Helicopters are charging my Wildcat and outgunning me, it's not a skill issue period.

Wildcat is dealing with threats from infantry + ground vehicles + air vehicles and have the ability to move in 2D world with pathetic mobility, yes they even skipped the wildcat mobility in update 6.0 on top of all this it has weak firepower, 30mm is useless vs attack helicopters, 35mm velocity is slow and make the already slow turret even slower, 40mm better to be removed so the player that take a wildcat play it as AA not IFV.

While Helicopters can move in a 3D world, faster, can go behind cover ( everywhere ) and have a great firepower ( attack helis ) with 2x TOW missiles + buffed gunner.

Why DICE did 4x buff for AT helis ?;

- great buff for attack heli mobility.

- big buff for gunner.

- 2 almost simultaneous TOW missiles.

- armor buff vs AA.

Infantry vs helicopters. Combined arms gameplay + fun. 

https://youtu.be/rJ4rFcdjSgM?si=cAmkoyuZyF-0Vzkb