Helicopter gameplay is near damn impossible

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@Bolvard wrote:

@Echo6EchoThe 40mm canister actually shreds more devestating in close range against aircraft than the m60 flak itself.

But the 60mm flak is the better Allrounder, be it air or ground…. especialy against infantry.

Spoiler

This isn’t the 1980s. All aircraft pretty much use a chaff and flare combo and it’s absolutely needed in this game. The lock-ons are nonstop in this game.

Wherent you the guy who said something about gamebalance vs reality ?

Yes, lock ons are constantly but it doesn’t matter if any of them can reach or hit you.
That means either the intendet countermeassures against air ARE to weak or the vehicle with its countermeassures to strong.

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Go give flying a whirl buddy. Here are’s an in-exhaustive list of the stuff you need to deal with.

1. The other helicopter/jet with missiles/guns

2. Possibly 2 transport helicopters, with a 2 shot 50mm and 2 miniguns that are better than the miniguns given to ground vehicles. The Condor can also just ram you if you are on the Russian team.

3. Possibly 2 Wildcats with insane gun and missile range. Missile lock-on time is less than one second and both missiles can be fired almost simultaneously. 
4. Rao hacks that pretty much prevent you from playing the game for about 10 seconds.

5. Stinger missiles from all across the map.

6. Lis missiles with terrible hit detection that don’t even need to touch you to blow you up. 

Seriously, go try and see how many kills you get before being grounded. I’m betting less than 3.

Also, unlike infantry, you can’t be revived and if you die there’s a 1:30 cooldown. Please tell me how the flares are unfair?

That’s a cool list but tiny compared what infantry / groundvehicles have to go through if they want to kill an air vehicle.

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@Bolvard wrote:

That’s a cool list but tiny compared what infantry / groundvehicles have to go through if they want to kill an air vehicle.

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Cope a little harder. Infantry can easily hide inside a building and be revived when killed. Ground vehicles can be easily repaired by the repair tool and hide under a bridge or inside a building. Air is also supposed to be strong. When you see a helicopter you should be scared.

@CPT_GASLIGHTThat is, in your opinion, the ratio of killings of equipment and an infantryman should be one to one?! Nochego, that there are 30 infantrymen on the map, and only one tank or helicopter. The revival of the infantryman in 5 seconds, and the vehicle in a minute and a half. Based on this, there should already be an understanding that one piece of equipment should be much stronger than 2 or 3 infantrymen. You say hide under a bridge or in a building, ha.. ha ... And what will you shoot there, one misguided infantryman, you will just have a crazy game. Not even five minutes will pass before you get C-4, and you won’t even know from where. You say to repair the tank, the foot soldiers are even cooler, the medic heals at a distance in batches.

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@AlkaniusRUS wrote:

@CPT_GASLIGHTThat is, in your opinion, the ratio of killings of equipment and an infantryman should be one to one?! Nochego, that there are 30 infantrymen on the map, and only one tank or helicopter. The revival of the infantryman in 5 seconds, and the vehicle in a minute and a half. Based on this, there should already be an understanding that one piece of equipment should be much stronger than 2 or 3 infantrymen. You say hide under a bridge or in a building, ha.. ha ... And what will you shoot there, one misguided infantryman, you will just have a crazy game. Not even five minutes will pass before you get C-4, and you won’t even know from where. You say to repair the tank, the foot soldiers are even cooler, the medic heals at a distance in batches.

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I said previously that it should take 4-5 infantry to take down one helicopter.

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@Bolvard wrote:
@CPT_GASLIGHTAnd the helicopter should be scared of anti air measures taken against him which currently dont apply to the situation for infantry AA, don’t matter the size.

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That already happens. Once you flare because of a lock-on you have to hide for cover. 

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@CPT_GASLIGHT wrote:

Go give flying a whirl buddy. Here are’s an in-exhaustive list of the stuff you need to deal with.

1. The other helicopter/jet with missiles/guns

2. Possibly 2 transport helicopters, with a 2 shot 50mm and 2 miniguns that are better than the miniguns given to ground vehicles. The Condor can also just ram you if you are on the Russian team.

3. Possibly 2 Wildcats with insane gun and missile range. Missile lock-on time is less than one second and both missiles can be fired almost simultaneously. 
4. Rao hacks that pretty much prevent you from playing the game for about 10 seconds.

5. Stinger missiles from all across the map.

6. Lis missiles with terrible hit detection that don’t even need to touch you to blow you up. 

Seriously, go try and see how many kills you get before being grounded. I’m betting less than 3.

Also, unlike infantry, you can’t be revived and if you die there’s a 1:30 cooldown. Please tell me how the flares are unfair?

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We also must not forget to add these to the list:

7. Soflam to allow bugged, ULTRA speed one-shot M5s to be shot at you.
8. TOW missiles from tanks and (LOL MOMENT) hovercrafts 

9. With recent changes to armor, even 40mm/50mm from jeeps downing the stealth heli in a few shots. 

10. Sundance grenade tracking air as well....

Having listed all that and maybe to some surprise, I honestly don't expect things to change much for helis at the moment. The game is very casual and unbalanced in some aspects. Some of those unbalanced aspects connected with air are obviously far below the sanity level (Liz and Rao for certain).

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@-AC-Ju5t1ce wrote:

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@CPT_GASLIGHT wrote:

Go give flying a whirl buddy. Here are’s an in-exhaustive list of the stuff you need to deal with.

1. The other helicopter/jet with missiles/guns

2. Possibly 2 transport helicopters, with a 2 shot 50mm and 2 miniguns that are better than the miniguns given to ground vehicles. The Condor can also just ram you if you are on the Russian team.

3. Possibly 2 Wildcats with insane gun and missile range. Missile lock-on time is less than one second and both missiles can be fired almost simultaneously. 
4. Rao hacks that pretty much prevent you from playing the game for about 10 seconds.

5. Stinger missiles from all across the map.

6. Lis missiles with terrible hit detection that don’t even need to touch you to blow you up. 

Seriously, go try and see how many kills you get before being grounded. I’m betting less than 3.

Also, unlike infantry, you can’t be revived and if you die there’s a 1:30 cooldown. Please tell me how the flares are unfair?

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We also must not forget to add these to the list:

7. Soflam to allow bugged, ULTRA speed one-shot M5s to be shot at you.
8. TOW missiles from tanks and (LOL MOMENT) hovercrafts 

9. With recent changes to armor, even 40mm/50mm from jeeps downing the stealth heli in a few shots. 

10. Sundance grenade tracking air as well....

Having listed all that and maybe to some surprise, I honestly don't expect things to change much for helis at the moment. The game is very casual and unbalanced in some aspects. Some of those unbalanced aspects connected with air are obviously far below the sanity level (Liz and Rao for certain).

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Heli's, especially stealth heli's have to deal with by far the fewest threats. 

You can make a list, but who are you trying to convince? And of what? 

Armor and infantry have to deal with far more threats - you aren't going to get much sympathy from that audience.

Also I'm not familiar with this SOFLAM bug.  Did you submit a bug report? I looked and didn't see anything.  The only mention of a SOFLAM bug actually benefits air vehicles.

> Heli's, especially stealth heli's have to deal with by far the fewest threats. 

No, it deals with everything as well. GL playing in stealth mode only.

> You can make a list, but who are you trying to convince? And of what? 

The list is made. You couldn't stop it but I understand that it prolly makes you mad because you STILL can't get the heli down.

> Armor and infantry have to deal with far more threats

No. Until Rao hacks your gun on infantry I won't be satisfied.

> you aren't going to get much sympathy from that audience.

There are multiple people who agree with me here. 

> Did you submit a bug report? I looked and didn't see anything.  The only mention of a SOFLAM bug actually benefits air vehicles.

Oh, maybe some1 is gonna help me with it as well! M5 flies at its usual speed after SOFLAM and if fired close it's impossible to react to this speed, which is prolly around 3x of normal AA rocket speed. It should have the regular AA rocket speed with current server pings and netcode.

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@-AC-Ju5t1ce wrote:

> Did you submit a bug report? I looked and didn't see anything.  The only mention of a SOFLAM bug actually benefits air vehicles.

Oh, maybe some1 is gonna help me with it as well! M5 flies at its usual speed after SOFLAM and if fired close it's impossible to react to this speed, which is prolly around 3x of normal AA rocket speed. It should have the regular AA rocket speed with current server pings and netcode.

 

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I'm not sure I 100% understand.  You say the M5 flies at normal speed towards a SOFLAM target  ...  and that qualifies as a bug because it gives you too little time to counter it?

That doesn't really fit my definition of a bug.  

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@AngrySquid270 wrote:

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@-AC-Ju5t1ce wrote:

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@CPT_GASLIGHT wrote:

Go give flying a whirl buddy. Here are’s an in-exhaustive list of the stuff you need to deal with.

1. The other helicopter/jet with missiles/guns

2. Possibly 2 transport helicopters, with a 2 shot 50mm and 2 miniguns that are better than the miniguns given to ground vehicles. The Condor can also just ram you if you are on the Russian team.

3. Possibly 2 Wildcats with insane gun and missile range. Missile lock-on time is less than one second and both missiles can be fired almost simultaneously. 
4. Rao hacks that pretty much prevent you from playing the game for about 10 seconds.

5. Stinger missiles from all across the map.

6. Lis missiles with terrible hit detection that don’t even need to touch you to blow you up. 

Seriously, go try and see how many kills you get before being grounded. I’m betting less than 3.

Also, unlike infantry, you can’t be revived and if you die there’s a 1:30 cooldown. Please tell me how the flares are unfair?

---

We also must not forget to add these to the list:

7. Soflam to allow bugged, ULTRA speed one-shot M5s to be shot at you.
8. TOW missiles from tanks and (LOL MOMENT) hovercrafts 

9. With recent changes to armor, even 40mm/50mm from jeeps downing the stealth heli in a few shots. 

10. Sundance grenade tracking air as well....

Having listed all that and maybe to some surprise, I honestly don't expect things to change much for helis at the moment. The game is very casual and unbalanced in some aspects. Some of those unbalanced aspects connected with air are obviously far below the sanity level (Liz and Rao for certain).

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Heli's, especially stealth heli's have to deal with by far the fewest threats. 

You can make a list, but who are you trying to convince? And of what? 

Armor and infantry have to deal with far more threats - you aren't going to get much sympathy from that audience.

Also I'm not familiar with this SOFLAM bug.  Did you submit a bug report? I looked and didn't see anything.  The only mention of a SOFLAM bug actually benefits air vehicles.

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Convince whom? People with common sense. Not .4 KD revive farmers.

So what if infantry actually face more threats? They’re infantry. That’s why infantry can respawn within 10 seconds and can be revived.

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@CPT_GASLIGHT wrote:

Convince whom? People with common sense. Not .4 KD revive farmers.

So what if infantry actually face more threats? They’re infantry. That’s why infantry can respawn within 10 seconds and can be revived.

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So what?  

You are making an argument that the game is imbalanced with heli's being the victims.

As evidence you list the threats Heli's face...which happens to be far less than armor and far far less than infantry.   It reads like "We face the fewest threats, we are the victims.  If you aren't convinced by that then you lack common sense.  Oh and your stats are probably bad".

If your goal is to persuade non-pilots then I'd recommend a different approach than bringing up the # of threats...or the personal attacks.

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@CPT_GASLIGHT wrote:

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Convince whom? People with common sense. Not .4 KD revive farmers.

So what if infantry actually face more threats? They’re infantry. That’s why infantry can respawn within 10 seconds and can be revived.

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Why do you guys feel the need when you can't come up with anything valid to ridicule other players or go with "git gud kid"?

It's not about respawn times, it's about balance and we know it's not...Against a competent team, a heli doesn't have a chance, which is impalanced. Against a non-caring, casual team, the helis are gods and capable of 100-0 and that's just not right, no matter how slack the other team is....

I think ya'll just need to go hug it out fellas...

@BolvardWhich is exactly what a good heli crew will do to infantry with MANPADS after they come back following the initial surprise attack.

@UP_HawxxeyeIt’s not just that, take for example the wildcat since he listed this vehicle too…

The wildcat with its ultra slow turning speed can’t keep up with aircraft if they directly fly over them

Ive seen it so many times, if I just had a stinger or where playing Rai at that time to free our wildcat driver…

2 ATG missiles and one bomb drop are enough btw to kill the wildcat as stealth heli pilot.
If you have a gunner it is even more easier since the emp shot helps you to gap the distance between you and the wildcat.

They should return the Aimspeed from groundvehicles from bf4 and remove this stupid recoil while fireing the main cannons.

The absolute clunky controls from groundvehicles are another reason why they suck so hard compared to air vehicles.

@Bolvard"realistic" ground vehicle limitations vs aircraft that fly almost as easily as a tiny DJI quadcopter.

In fact the actual ingame quadcopter flies worse than the actual helis.

Anything on the ground with an AA role needs to have full up to the 90 degree turret angle.

@Bolvardto say nothing about the EMP launcher that can render the wildcat unable to fire back even at other angles.

@UP_Hawxxeye I completely agree that a stealth helicopter can easily destroy anti-aircraft guns. But this is on condition that he went unnoticed and successfully dropped the bombs. Then you spin from above over the anti-aircraft gun and finish 30 mm without any problems. Now playing for the infantry, the helicopter practically does not bother me. For the whole game, he kills me 2-3 times, sometimes even never. If I come across an annoying pilot, then I take Rao and definitely ruin his life. In 70% of cases the pilot will be destroyed.

@Echo6Echo It's not about respawn times, it's about balance and we know it's not...Against a competent team, a heli doesn't have a chance, which is impalanced. Against a non-caring, casual team, the helis are gods and capable of 100-0 and that's just not right, no matter how slack the other team is....

This is spot on.   DICE gives the community what it needs, however, it doesnt give us 1 thing.  The ability to get with our team and strat specialists and gear.   The loadouts are random.  Additionally, there are the stat board hores.  All they care about is KD so they can epeen.  No amount of teamwork will bring in a gamer who uses stats as a self esteem tool.  

Teamwork is OP.   Right after the Paik buff, I witnessed 4 (they had to be in discord and grouped up) wipe out 17 others with such skill and precision, I delayed shooting them out of awe.   I sniped 2 of them during the rampage, and they just revived and continued.  that was a 1 on 4 scenario, and they wiped the floor with the pugs.  I do not count myself in the 17.  I was 200 meters away. 

In another platform, I participated in 40 man premades with a descending reporting structure and team assignments.  Usually a game would take 40 minutes.   We won in 8.

All that being said Echo, the OP complained about teamwork Lis.  He wants teamwork nerfed more then it already is.