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Gurz1019_MP's avatar
Gurz1019_MP
Seasoned Hotshot
2 years ago
Solved

Helicopter vs. Infantry or Light Armored Vehicle

There was a discussion a while ago, but I lost track of it, so I'm going to reopen the topic. It was mentioned that when fighting helicopters (mainly NBs), we could use the 20mm Flak, an anti-aircra...
discussion
  • MADMAC50K's avatar
    MADMAC50K
    2 years ago

    One of the problems is that there is no fixed AA, like in previous BF games.  I know they tried to add it to maps like Haven, but I think Stevie Wonder implemented it, as they are placed in stupid locations and the damage from them is lower than small arms fire.

    There should be option for fixed AA to appear (or be built) once you have capped a flag.  Worked well in other BF games, stupid that it's missing from 2042 given how OP the air vehicles are.

UP_Hawxxeye's avatar
UP_Hawxxeye
Legend
2 years ago

Most of the woes of infantry vs aircraft boil down to the main infantry tools intended for aircraft being homing.

The problem with homing missiles is that they either will be almost unavoidable or they will never score a single kill.

This is why BF1 and BFV had relatively healthier balance, the AA were skillshot based.

The other aspect of infantry vs aircraft that is not often talked about is the comparative numbers of aircraft when compared to the numbers of infantry players who try to do something as opposed to the number of infantry players who cannot be bothered to do anything. Even the janky stingers would do a lot if the majority of the map was covered by at least one loaded stinger.

By the same logic, what do you think will happen to a nightbird if a full squad picked the Railgun rifles and started focus firing it? It had been nerfed to the point where a single person is not such a big deal but it is not the same for several people.

One could argue that the main problem in BF games since forever is how most people treat their ingame time as a solo theme park ride where they do not really have a common ground with their team.

Perhaps my thinking is weird, but I see the combined balance in BF games like how it works in Real Time Strategy games where you are supposed to have prepared the correct units and defenses instead of having a mass of a single unit type

MADMAC50K's avatar
MADMAC50K
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@UP_Hawxxeye You know what else BF1 and BFV had? Fixed AA! A suggestion I made a few posts back for 2042 or the next game, that was rejected as being ridiculous.

DICE need to stop trying to force teamplay by making single weapons/gadgets weak. There is no teamplay needed for pilots to farm infantry, so there should be a way for infantry to fight back that's effective. If that's through skill-based weapons fine, but pilots need less skill, so give us fixed AA also - otherwise you're relying on that lucky skill shot to deal with a air vehicle - and that's not balanced.

Also suggesting the railgun to deal with air vehicles - I shouldn't need to compromise my primary weapon to have to deal with air vehicles, if I don't have fixed AA to call on, then engineer gadgets and launchers should do the job. If the answer is "use AA vehicles" then fine, make aircraft less lethal to infantry and make this an air vs ground vehicle fight.

"Skill issue" is often banded back to infantry players who complain about air vehicles and how OP they are, but if DICE make the game so unbalanced that you need hundreds of hours of game time just to deal with a single helo - how is that inclusive for the casual games or new players? That's a certain sales disaster if that's what they want. BF isn't a sim - it used to be a fun place for casual players and skill players alike to enjoy gaming. Now it isn't.

DICE more or less have the infantry vs ground vehicles balance about right now - there are ways to deal with ground vehicles that don't require pure luck or huge skill, but they have largely ignored the air vs infantry or just made it worse through constant infantry changes and nerfs. There are SO MANY assists for pilots with lock on notification, missile incoming notification, missile direction, infinite flares, repair and ammo, easy aim gun reticules, stealth modes - and that without talking about how lethal the weapons themselves are.

DICE need to decide what the next game is - is it a BF game for casual gamers, or some sort of sim. They need to get it right because games like Delta Force Hawk Ops are waiting in the wings to steal their already dwindling players....
  • UP_Hawxxeye's avatar
    UP_Hawxxeye
    Legend
    2 years ago

    @MADMAC50K
    We definitely needed some stationary AA guns in 2042. The ones on the relatively recent map are a joke + they are fodder for AGMs

    Personally I consider my personal duty to abandon my loadout and change to whatever I need to try to crash that helicopter. If I need to switch to something with missiles, I will redeploy to change for it, same with the rest. I did get desperate enough to use the railgun rifle and the anti material rifle vs the Nightbird in Haven a few times.

    I avoid talking about "skill issue". Skill is the measure of good someone is at something.
    What most people lack the most in my teams (at least the ones that get hammered by air) is "effort".
    As my Kickboxing master said a few weeks ago: "People who make mistakes are people who are at least trying, we should not be embarrassed for our failures as long as we are still trying"

    I mean... who many times were you not doing our best in order to nail some pilot and your team seemed to try to ignore the problem.

    They definitely did not have to give pilots all those warnings for the manually guided rockets too. I only need to hear the incoming TGM and immediately attempt a barrel roll without even seeing it.

    I do hope that DFH ops will be good enough to make DICE look itself in the mirror a bit.

    @Gurz1019_MP 

    I do not know which region you are from but it could be fun to try to see if we can one day team up to see how much we can do vs enemy helis.

    It always gets a lot better if there are more people who try together.

  • MADMAC50K's avatar
    MADMAC50K
    Seasoned Ace
    2 years ago
    @UP_Hawxxeye I will happily switch class/specialist to access a gadget to try and deal with an air vehicle that is dominating, but I draw the line at compromising my primary weapon to do so - that definitely should not be needed.

    Alternatively, make the AA/AT weapons picks up - like in BF1 with the Tankgewehr and Elite Crates, Hardline with Stinger pickups, BF4, BFV etc. In fact - every other BF game pretty much had pickup weapons.

    Something that could have made a difference to the balance in 2042.
  • Gurz1019_MP's avatar
    Gurz1019_MP
    Seasoned Hotshot
    2 years ago
    @UP_Hawxxeye If you assume that you are going to take on the challenge with a squad of friends, you will be able to turn it around, even if it is a little unbalanced. I would like to improve the solo playing experience. By the way, I play in Japan.
  • UP_Hawxxeye's avatar
    UP_Hawxxeye
    Legend
    2 years ago
    @Gurz1019_MP
    Since I started this series in BF3, solo experience was always awful unless one was lucky with his team.
    The thing that improved my Battefield experience more than anything else, was joining a Platoon
  • Gurz1019_MP's avatar
    Gurz1019_MP
    Seasoned Hotshot
    2 years ago

    There was one more important comment. I play 128CQ mainly for game modes where vehicles are available, but most of the time there are close to 30 engineers. Ideally, I think it would be optimal to have a balance of all of each soldier on the team. I believe that having so many Engineers represents either a lack of objective capability in the Engineers, or that the vehicles are too powerful. Either that, or some players may be reluctant to make the choice, basically because they can't deal with the vehicles except for the Engineers, so they use the Engineers just in case they encounter them and can counter them. Personally, I think it would be better to reduce the frequency of vehicle appearances rather than adjusting their firepower. I think it is necessary to reduce the frequency of encountering vehicles on the battlefield and reduce the need for engineers. Only when there is an optimal balanced distribution among the various armies will players be given the freedom to choose their armies. As it is now, there are too many situations where the player is forced to choose the Engineers out of necessity. This limits how you fight as an infantryman and is not fun. Well, I think this problem can be greatly improved by improving the mechanism of cooperation within friendlies.

  • Man_iLoveFishing's avatar
    Man_iLoveFishing
    Seasoned Ace
    2 years ago
    @UP_Hawxxeye About barrel roll, this actually doesn't work always, or actually it's common. If you do it too soon, you get hit most likely. And depends of altitude ofc, in nb gravity is like sv_gravity 1200. It sounds unbelievable, but it happens often. Even i do flips and flops, hits well. 😀
  • UP_Hawxxeye's avatar
    UP_Hawxxeye
    Legend
    2 years ago
    @Man_iLoveFishing
    To be fair, I am talking about the drone-weight pre patch NB here

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