Idea for Jet pilot Limitation
I flew jets a ton in BF2, BF3 and a little bit in BF4, and while I loved the mechanics of dogfighting, there is no doubt that jet battles became a little stale towards the end of BF4. Dogfighting cam...
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@Toastymalone88313 is already gone, and while limiting G might seem like a good, no idea whether it will work in practice, instead making dogfights better, maybe people will just do what they did in bf v and just go stall fight, obviously you could also fix that, but then you're going towards a more realistic approach to jets, not sure if that is viable for game like battlefield, especially since all other games still would be very arcade.
the issue with "tactical" changes to make game more complex is that it sometimes doesn't produce the desired results, for example with tanks in V, which were more sluggish and weaker in cqc compared to others battlefield (plus attrition, and more assault players), requiring more teamwork from infantry and tactical awareness to do well in tanks, atleast that seemed to be the idea, instead players adopted a long range camping playstyle to compensate for this,
in the case for jets in battlefield 2042, blackouts might be great in practice or it could absolutely kill air to air combat fun too (depending on the other jet mechanics)
@SirBobdk not entirly true, the stalling is the noob "technique". also the high altitude perk. When it comes to experienced pilots, knowing your plane and how it turns, the way down is the option to go.
Nicely captured here:
@frantaypsthat only works that well because the other pilots are pretty terrible, if they knew how to break off to use the speed they have turn around him while he bleeds off his speed, he would still die, instead they get too greedy/excited and just follow him and crash, good flying though
that being said it's rare to find really good pilots in battlefield V, most of the good battlefield pilots stayed in 3/4/1 or just left V, in my own experience I barely find good pilots in matches compared to older games, good pilots as in good in air to air combat, there enough pilots in V that are good in air to ground though
yes, i am sorry i need to adjust your sentence there a bit:
instead of: there enough pilots in V that are good in air to ground though
i would use:there enough pilots in V that are good in air to ground with rockets though
@IcemangoooWhen BFV dogfighting became a silly who gets rear aspect first wins game, it was immediately boring. Having effectively zero options in any part of the game is ultimately not good design.
I am hopeful that Battlefield 2042 does much better, but I am not confident that will happen.Getting rear position has always been a major tactical advantage. With tanks you get rear armor multiplier. With infantry you get knife kill or usually an easy gun battle. It should be no different with planes especially since you get both 3d and rear cameras + free look. The fact that I hear many veteran pilots complain about BFV air combat reinforces in my mind that it was in fact some of the best we've actually had (though still far from perfect). The objective was to democratize air combat and bring it more in line with the rest of the game. If somebody gets the jump on you and clips your wing you generally should lose that fight.
But too many pilots suffer from ACS (Ace Combat Syndrome) where they think the MP should play like AC SP and that they should, by virtue of being a pilot, be exempt from the mechanics that apply to the rest of the players. I'm all for jet pilots being able to have high kd's but there is a sentiment among many that 50-1 or 75-1 should be the norm rather than an exceptional game.
I believe those types of results should be earned and not be entitlements; mechanics should not sculpted around facilitating pilot dominance (looking at you Below Radar) but instead be in line with the rest of the game. I do below BR should return but it should be reformed:
Option 1: Both infantry and vehicle based homing missiles of all types can lock on below radar BUT the lock on times have a modifier. Something like 2x for jets and 3x for helicopters (the exact numbers can be tweaked). This gives pilots enough time to break LOS or potentially get out of range of land based threats but will not completely immunize them.
Option 2: HeatSeekers are able to lock on and fire at target below radar but Radar guided missiles cannot at all. This brings value to HeatSeekers that was missing at the end of BF4 as they were completely outclassed by the far superior Passive Radar Missile.
Both options will decrease the value of the OP below radar (while still giving it tangible benefits) while increasing the value of the UP vehicle based homing missiles (especially jets). In doing so you help bring aircraft in line with the rest of the game in terms of survivability and prevent the sort of air dominance by "elites" you've historically seen in the past.
Apologies to OP for going OT. I think the idea of high G penalties is a solid one. Whether it should be limited to FOV decrease or whether excessive use should culminate in full on blackout is a tricky question to answer. Would doing the latter end up actually protracting battles rather than giving them more depth? I can't say. Would there be perhaps a mini game with respect to breathing technique that delays the onset of blackout that would, in effect, take the place of 313 speed?
I think how we approach it will depend a lot too on how the parts damage system is implemented. Judging from rumors it appears that the BFV parts damage system may have been dropped in favor of BF4 style mobility criticals. I hope that is not the case or at least if it is then there is some randomness introduced instead of it being 100% mobility crit every time single shot damage exceeds x amount. The 100% mobility crits effectively will force everyone to take quick repair which is not good for upgrade diversity.
This is one of the few instances where RNG actually makes sense. Homing missiles aren't aimed and deployed like conventional weapons so players really shouldn't be rewarded with a mobility hit on the enemy 100% of the time. Doing so makes things a zero sum game and gives pilots some semblance of justification for requesting Below Radar protection. So if we institute an RNG like this for example:
Number on the left is the chance of the event occurring - only one event can occur per missile hit
Normal damage is approximately 45% of health
HeatSeeker
- 75 - Normal damage (no status ailments inflicted)
- 5 - 50% of normal damage + Engine status ailment
- 5 - 50% of normal damage + Maneuverability status ailment
- 5 - Normal damage + Ejection seat/Radar disabled
- 5 - 125% of normal damage
- 5 - 25% of normal damage (premature detonation)
This gives devs tons of room for granular adjustment since any of these numbers or conditions can be adjusted to achieve near perfect balance.
Edited for clarity
@frantayps Using Friendly4 is maybe not the best eksempel. Very few could do like him and he is much more than just experienced. I do get your point though.
I'm conflicted because on the one hand you've linked to an exquisite example of masterful flying but then you label the high alt perk as being a noob technique. Using high alt spec is no more noob than choosing any other perk that gives you an advantage. It's a classic example of using brains over brawn. And the perk itself is useless unless you know how to capitalize with it. It had such a lovely synergy too: Vain pilots who just couldn't muster the discipline to pull off the chase left helplessly stranded in the air where they were often cut down by their more cunning adversary. It brought some much needed depth to aerial combat.
I only wish that to counterbalance there was an equivalent perk that would have given you slightly better turn radius when flying below x meters.
- @espicodélicos This kind of technique is extremely easy to do and stupid. NOOB FRIENDLY! BFV only brought annoyance, indignation and frustration to Battlefield pilots.
The competitive system of the "313mph" should make a comeback. This makes the game competitive and without frustration and indignation for a stupid mechanic.So another game of turning circles until someone loses the will to live?
