MBT Upgrade Issues+ Ideas + Role Identity

Greetings again forum, it seems no one has really touched on this subject so I'd like to do so and welcome concepts and ideas from others of course! The other thread about MBT's lacking defense pretty much had all that needed to be said about it and died off (there really wasn't much more to say) so that thread is currently buried. If you'd like to take a look at it, the link is here: https://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/Lack-of-Tank-Defensive-Capabilities/m-p/11087125#M63309

This however is as the title says, and will touch on a few things. Again I didn't make a spread sheet, or videos because I lack the time to do so, there is a spreadsheet on damage profiles floating around on this thread, but it doesn't account for reload speeds sadly. Still good information non the less. https://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/Vehicle-Balance-Improvement-proposal-for-update-4-Final/td-p/11104402

The purpose of this is to highlight the issues with the MBT "upgrades" for the main cannon, how none of these unlocks are very beneficial overall and the role identity which the MBT is currently not filling.

MBT "Upgrades"

For now I will be only referring to the selection of cannon's which both the T-28 and M1A5 both are able to unlock once they fill the required kill pool. I'll only be able to share limited thoughts currently as I've found both other unlocks very lacking compared to the standard cannon. Which again is why I've put "upgrades" in quotes. I will also be touching lightly on the wildcat, but will probably dedicate a whole new thread to this as there is indeed a lot to be said about that platform.

Currently the standard cannon and munition it fires is not only the most well rounded shell type avalible to the tank, despite having some very big drawback's in the form of it's very small splash damage (which I feel still needs to be a little more generous), but also the least role breaking. (this is for folks who don't know about MBT specific stuff) For the unlocks and "upgrades" you get two new cannon variants, you get the HEAT cannon/shell, which has an increased splash, but vastly lower effectiveness against vehicles, and the STAFF cannon/shell which is described as being able to slightly correct it's path onto a target when fired, which I assume is meant to help with mobile targets and leading which also, for balance reasons has a less effective damage profile against vehicles. As a note: I have never used the STAFF option, so if I am saying something wrong, please let me know!

I will start with the HEAT option, this to me is not an upgrade, it is actually a downgrade and kneecaps a tank in it's ability to be effective. The shell itself has a huge drop off compared to the standard cannon, and still suffers from lackluster results as it's effectiveness seems rather lacking for a munition that is suppose to be a larger area of effect to loosen up entrenched enemies. Coupled with the reload time, you have now turned your tank into a very  very watered down wildcat with many more drawbacks. This also conflicts with the tanks supposed role as a vehicle buster. The damage vs even lighter armored vehicles will see them driving off into the sunset while you fight to reload and hit them for the 4th time! To me this seems counter productive, as you already have a coax (which again needs a bit of love), and various choices for weapons stations for your other crewmen, if you have any. While yes you can run a HEAT option with a TOW launcher the trade off simply does not seem to outweigh what benefit this cannon is supposed to bring. It feels like they are trying to go the Planet Side 2 route where they gave their tanks the option to be AP (Anti Tank no splash damage and direct hit infantry) Standard cannon (I think it was called HESH which was middle ground anti vehicle and middle ground anti infantry) and the HEAT option which is what we have, made for anti infantry, lower damage to vehicles. Having played planetside and having no coax on their tanks, it's really not a fun time and they also have a ton of anti armor options which can still hit you from out of render range. Dedicating a whole cannon to simply fire a different shell feels off when you simply need to just load a different munition into the same cannon. 

STAFF cannon, again this one I know the least about, which means I am only going off that spreadsheet from the other thread and in all my hours of tanking I have never come against a tank using one that I know of. In concept it seemed interesting, a shell which could correct it's own trajectory, I could see this helping for very long range engagements, but again the damage against your enemy is so lacking you will not only get outgunned, but wont be able to secure a kill because your enemy will just simply move away. This again, conflicts with the tanks role, both unlock options REDUCE the killing potential of the tank, we are mainly talking vehicle to vehicle in this case but even vs infantry and air assets to a point. Again I wont touch much on STAFF besides it's damage falloff, someone who has experience with this variant can likely paint a better picture. 

All things considered, both cannon unlocks for the tank are very lacking and actually take the vehicle further from it's role, and when compared to something like the Wildcat which gets huge damage boosts against both air and ground targets, it begs to figure out where the tank is supposed to fit. Currently a Wildcat, with just a 57mm unlocked can kill a tank within 5 shots, head to head. It's weapon cycles faster then the tank can reload, and it's drop off is far less compared to a MBT's shell, couple that with the lock-on anti tank rocket and you have a very powerful anti ground vehicle platform with very few drawbacks. Now replace the AT rocket with an AA rocket and you have a vehicle which can cover both surface and air reliably with no real drawbacks. Compare this to the unlocks of the MBT you see a huge disparity in not only performance, but general concept. Every MBT cannon progressively gets worse at it's intended role as a vehicle killer which is why most tanks I have encountered simply run the standard cannon, myself included.

IDEAS!

Now that this is out of the way, here are a few ideas in mind. Instead of limiting the cannon to 1 shell type, which doesnt feel very fulfilling, why not dedicate the different cannons to multiple shell types which fit a desired role. Example: The current HEAT "cannon", instead of just firing high explosive rounds, give the tank the option to cycle ammunition types. Let's say this particular cannon is meant for more close range "urban" type engagements, this particular cannon type would be able to cycle HEAT rounds, Canister shot's, and maybe some kind of air burst munition that the driver can detonate (like a skillshot to hit an enemy behind a wall). This would give the tanks not only variety but options aside from being unusable in anything besides wide open fields where all they do is try and hit from afar. Close quarter lethality is a glaring issue for MBT's, should they be vulnerable in close quarters yes, not defenseless with no options, this would be more favorable against lighter armored targets and should still be out shinned by a tank which is loaded with a more anti vehicle munitions, but they should not be defenseless and still pack a punch.

The standard cannon could have access to a more middle ground variety of munitions that would be appropriate for multiple uses and roles, still leaning more towards the anti vehicle aspect, or leaning slightly more towards anti infantry. Because lets face it, as much as infantry player complain they get killed by tanks, hitting them with a shot that takes 4 seconds to reload each time isn't "over bearing" and if the coax's weren't in the state they are in maybe they'd be eating less shells. If you make yourself open to a chance to get shot, sorry you're gonna get shot! Vehicles are not gonna turn around and leave you alone just because you're on foot!

Ahem- Some possible ideas for this would be a dedicated armor piercing round that does higher damage to vehicles with a lower splash, sort of like what we have now, another type of airburst that is good against vehicles which ducked behind cover, etc.

As for the STAFF and it's platform, the sky is really the limit. You could introduce top attack munitions, or some sort of shell that acts more like a mortar, heck, a guided EMP shell that disrupts, the STAFF to me seems like a low damage and high disable platform meant to harass rather then kill because of its guidance ability and again should lose to a more vehicle heavy counter but should also still be able to make an impact and not have to run just because they choose this option.

And this would again tie into tanks needing a bit of extra defense like ERA and APS's to make tank fights more engaging.

These are just some brief ideas, very quick, not super thought out but I would love to have folks build either new things or add onto these.

Now for the hard part.

Role Identity

Right now the MBT is sitting in a very odd spot, it is currently not a vehicle dominator as it is decried to be, nor is it very durable. It takes the same amount of M5 Recoiless to kill a tank as it does for a standard tank cannon to kill a tank. 4 shots from each. Which seeing as 63 other people can carry rockets or C5, that is not a lot of breathing room for something as big and slow maneuvering as our MBT's. The vehicle is very easily out shined and outclassed by the Wildcat, which again gets actual role changing beneficial main gun upgrades, and very powerful secondaries, while also having thermal smoke as a default, the MBT is simply left with very few options to make it viable and have an impact. Currently what the MBT wants to be is a force multiplier and area denier for it's team, it is currently neither of those. The Wildcat however, is exactly that. With it's ability to reliably and easily deter infantry, ground vehicles and aircraft (loadout dependent) it fills that role of "all around vehicle" without trying. If ERA were to be implemented, at this current time I would say it should only be for MBT's as something standard, to counter the Wildcat's thermal smoke it gets by default. This would allow the tank to be more durable compared to the WC and would emphasize the support role the WC is supposed to have, at heart the WC is an IFV (infantry fighting vehicle) on steroids it should do just that, fight with and support infantry and preform it's mobile AA role. While given the right conditions it should be able to win against a tank, it should, indeed be at a disadvantage and not be able to win outright in a head to head. If ERA is introduced, a solution to the 57mm maybe to to make it chip off and expose part of the ERA to lower the TTK that this setup allows. 

There are many options to help with the intended role of the tank, some say more HP, others say more systems, some say less systems. Either way, right now it does not fill any clear role and it's supposed upgrades reflect this heavily, again, this is mainly hitting on the cannon options we are currently given, I would even say some shells should be optional to all cannon platforms, give the tank some variety and not completely predictable.

Any thoughts and ideas or general input is welcomed! I will try my best to reply to everyone who want's to discuss things!