Re: [Discussion Thread] Core Feedback - Specialists

Er..no, smgs were always an engineers weapon.

Support should get ammo crates/pouches and LMGs if we are going with the BF3/4 route. They meet to take out assault and put am actual medic class in and give them the healing/reviving duties...as it should be.

Shotguns should be thrown into a universal weapons pool. I would be OK with engineers getting carbines and the smgs being thrown into a universal weapons pool as well..

@ace_wolf08yeah but this is 2042 we are talking about, which is a galaxy away already from being like previous BF games. For 2042 in my opinion the support would be better with smgs. Though you make a good point on shotguns, these and marksman rifles could be universal to give more choice due to lack of weapons.

While I get the big leap and all, some sort of normality should be tried to be reach and for most ofbus...support getting smgs is just too much out of the normal. I mean BC2 and their class load out was a bit weird as well, where the assault was actually support where they got the ammo and stuff and support was the medics...it was weird af.

I would prefer this type of load out.

Assault being renamed Medics and they get all of the life saving gadgets, along with the underslung grenade launcher'course that won't work because it is an accessory now and not a gadget like it use to.' They also have access to the AR class of weapons.

Engineers should get everything vehicle related, healing and destroying vehicles. Weapon wise they should get carbines imo.

Support should get anything to do with resupplying the team, maybe throw in some explosive type gadgets as well, c5 and claymore perhaps. Their main weapon types should be LMGs. 

Recon should get anything to do with spotting, lazing vehicles and getting behind enemy lines. Obviously their weapon class should be bolt actions.

Universal weapons should be SMGs/PDWs, DMRs and shotguns as main weapons, pistols should remain as universal as well. Also I feel like the grenades should be universal as well.

I get the lack of weapon selections...and that really is a shame for a Battlefield title, but I think that if/when they bring over the BF3 weapons and gadgets and maybe the BC2 stuff, we should be safe to have class locked weapons to go with class locked gadgets.

Either way, support needs to be split into two different classes  medic and support...

Assault should be renamed medic, sense Assault in BF1 and 5 took over some of the responsibilities of the engineering class. However 2042 already has an engineer class...so Assault is a bit redundant.

I really don't know what the issue and trouble is, we don't need to reinvent the wheel on this one, we have so many titles that have given us the blueprints on how classes are done....yet here we are trying to create ideas like it is such a new concept...lol

@ace_wolf08yeah i get where you going with these. What specialists do you think would belong to each class in your opinion? Or are you happy with what Dice proposed?

Personally, I can't really judge that aspect. Mainly because I have only played about 8 hours of the 10 hour trial. I never bought the gane....just because of the specialists and no class system.

Personally, I feel like if they just removed their special gadgets/abilities then they can be placed where ever...sense then they would be nothing be elite skins.

I do feel like the fact that these heroes are playing for both sides and have no real factions makes it even hard for class selection, sense there seems to be multiple heroes going into the same classes. If some of them get put strictly for the U.S. and the rest were Russian..then things would be a lot easier, class and game play wise.

As it is now, I would think the easiest solution for most of them is what are their abilities and gadgets? I would think that anyone that has to do with recon,surveillance, hacking, spotting would be an obvious recon class. Anything medical related SHOULD be in the medic class, anything anti tank or vehicle oriented should be engineer and anything ammo related SHOULD be support.

That is really the only way to make it easy and make sense....without doing what I and many others have suggested doing, removing their abilities and gadgets and just making them into elite skins like in BFV..

Considering I have been a fan sense this franchise hit the consoles and this is the first title I refuse to buy BECAUSE of the specialists, I say my view is all valid as the next person and I should get a say in. Considering their design choice is what kept me from giving them my money..

As for the hacking issue, I get that it is MAINLY hacking vehicles, but remember...you can also hack infantry and use that kill as a spotting mechanism, you cab also hack environmental objects to block the enemy. That seems like a recon class to me OR if we want to do a BF2 and bring back a Spec Ops/Sabetoure 'sp?' class then I would say it could fit there.

I have played and seen enough of this game to know that these specialists as is....isn't working and that the classic BF3/4/1/5 class system would be preferable to this..

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@ace_wolf08 wrote:

Considering I have been a fan sense this franchise hit the consoles and this is the first title I refuse to buy BECAUSE of the specialists, I say my view is all valid as the next person and I should get a say in. Considering their design choice is what kept me from giving them my money..

As for the hacking issue, I get that it is MAINLY hacking vehicles, but remember...you can also hack infantry and use that kill as a spotting mechanism, you cab also hack environmental objects to block the enemy. That seems like a recon class to me OR if we want to do a BF2 and bring back a Spec Ops/Sabetoure 'sp?' class then I would say it could fit there.

I have played and seen enough of this game to know that these specialists as is....isn't working and that the classic BF3/4/1/5 class system would be preferable to this..

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have you played against stealth helicopters?

by the way, the changes they are making are half * classes.  they aren't locking weapons so there aren't real classes.  they are just doing a half measure that doesn't give anyone what  they want.  it's a giant * sandwich and we all get to take a bite.

Nope and glad for it. Without an actual engineer class with anti aircraft missiles....it would be annoying AF.

I am fully aware of the lite class system they are thinking about making, I also know that most likely they would be willing to tweak it, hence all of the feedback.

If they ate going to do classes ' as they should ' then they shouldn't do half measures like this and just go full throttle and get us the real class system back. If they don't know what that is or looks like...they cab research ANY of the past titles and fine out....any of them would be better then what we have now or what they are thinking of doing..

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@ace_wolf08 wrote:

Nope and glad for it. Without an actual engineer class with anti aircraft missiles....it would be annoying AF.

I am fully aware of the lite class system they are thinking about making, I also know that most likely they would be willing to tweak it, hence all of the feedback.

If they ate going to do classes ' as they should ' then they shouldn't do half measures like this and just go full throttle and get us the real class system back. If they don't know what that is or looks like...they cab research ANY of the past titles and fine out....any of them would be better then what we have now or what they are thinking of doing..

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Let me educate you on stealth helos then.  Right now the only way to deal with a stealth helicopter to chase him off with rao.  If the pilot is decent you cannot solo him.  All you can do is hack him and fire a stinger at him.  If he doesnt flare before the hack completes, the stinger hit will cause him not to be able to go immediately back into stealth mode and he will have to retreat

If rao cannot use a stinger (FXM-33, stinger is easier to type on phone) then there is no credible threat to the helicopter so he doesnt need to run. Instead he can look for rao.   He can wait for the hack to wear of and he will then have a firewall so he cant be hacked again for a short window.  During that window any good pilot will kill rao.

If you make rao a recon and take away the ability to use the stinger there will be zero counter to stealth helicopters who stay in stealth mode.  It is already a major problem in breakthrough and will only get worse with the class changes

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@Prof3ss0r_M1k3 wrote:

Let me educate you on stealth helos then.  Right now the only way to deal with a stealth helicopter to chase him off with rao.  If the pilot is decent you cannot solo him.  All you can do is hack him and fire a stinger at him.  If he doesnt flare before the hack completes, the stinger hit will cause him not to be able to go immediately back into stealth mode and he will have to retreat

If rao cannot use a stinger (FXM-33, stinger is easier to type on phone) then there is no credible threat to the helicopter so he doesnt need to run. Instead he can look for rao.   He can wait for the hack to wear of and he will then have a firewall so he cant be hacked again for a short window.  During that window any good pilot will kill rao.

If you make rao a recon and take away the ability to use the stinger there will be zero counter to stealth helicopters who stay in stealth mode.  It is already a major problem in breakthrough and will only get worse with the class changes

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You right about that, Rao should and needs to be engineer. The current class layout is not the final form. It is open to be changed hence the feedback. As recon tends to stay further back afield, Rao would be best suited up front to target helis and other vehicles, and getting ammo for the launchers. Also his hack only reaches so far so recon really wouldnt be his best role.

I get that, I really do...but you are missing the potential team play that could happen here. Roa is recon, that means they get a soflam or those goggles that lakes targets. So, hack them, laze them, engineer on your team or in your squad whips out a stinger and hits them. Sense theybwere Lazed, the missile should do extra damage. Plus you get the extra assist points for hacking and lazing the targets.

It is what my friends an I use to do on BF3, recon, support and engineer with a Javalin. I would be recon Lazer designating air and ground vehicles, one of my inherent buddies would be firing their Jav at them, other buddy would resupply them with the ammo crates..

We might not have been taking flags but it was fun and we were thinning out the enemy vehicles for our friendlies to take the points easier, so...team work..instead of this one person lobe wolf army..

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@ace_wolf08 wrote:

I get that, I really do...but you are missing the potential team play that could happen here. Roa is recon, that means they get a soflam or those goggles that lakes targets. So, hack them, laze them, engineer on your team or in your squad whips out a stinger and hits them. Sense theybwere Lazed, the missile should do extra damage. Plus you get the extra assist points for hacking and lazing the targets.

It is what my friends an I use to do on BF3, recon, support and engineer with a Javalin. I would be recon Lazer designating air and ground vehicles, one of my inherent buddies would be firing their Jav at them, other buddy would resupply them with the ammo crates..

We might not have been taking flags but it was fun and we were thinning out the enemy vehicles for our friendlies to take the points easier, so...team work..instead of this one person lobe wolf army..

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You dont get it.  People dont talk to each other in this game.  You cant coordinate to the degree needed to do what you are saying.  There is NO cohesiveness to squads in this game.  Everyone gets dumped into a new random squad on a new server after every game.

Not everyone has 3+people to regularly play with, the vast majority have to play with randos

Go play the game before trying to dictate what people need to do in order to be successful in it.

I get that but I still feel like his abilities for teamwork wise would be better suited as recon..maybe not a traditional sniper recon but more of a spec ops style recon. He shouldn't be able to be a one man army with his hacking then being able to whip out a missile?

It should be balanced where he can do the hacking and target designating but an actual anti vehicle engineer should be the one with the heavy artillery to take those vehicles out once the hack and laze happens...you know...team work?

Also, this way, Rao doesn't end up being the only target the chopper goes after...because itbends up being a two man team, the hack and designation could be coming from one side but the actual attack happens from a different angle..

Then that is yet another issue that we need to hammer DICE about then isn't it? We truly need server browsers in the main game and being able to stay within the server for round after round, so we can get that cohesiveness.

This game has so many issues and missing stuff that it really is hard to pin point where it needs to start. Getting An actual class system back up is a good start but that needs to be followed right up with server browsers and a consistent server..agreed?

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@ace_wolf08 wrote:

I get that but I still feel like his abilities for teamwork wise would be better suited as recon..maybe not a traditional sniper recon but more of a spec ops style recon. He shouldn't be able to be a one man army with his hacking then being able to whip out a missile?

It should be balanced where he can do the hacking and target designating but an actual anti vehicle engineer should be the one with the heavy artillery to take those vehicles out once the hack and laze happens...you know...team work?

Also, this way, Rao doesn't end up being the only target the chopper goes after...because itbends up being a two man team, the hack and designation could be coming from one side but the actual attack happens from a different angle..

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What you feel is right has no bearing on the reality in the game.  Go play the game (you admitted you only have 8 hours in the game, that is not enough time to understand the nuances of this game and you have never gone up against a stealth helicopter)

Until you are on the receiving end of stealth helicopter you will not understand that what you are expecting of PUGs *will not be possible*

You have a 7-10 second window to hurt a stealth helicopter before he comes for you.  And he will because he gets an indicator for where the hack is coming from

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@ace_wolf08 wrote:

Then that is yet another issue that we need to hammer DICE about then isn't it? We truly need server browsers in the main game and being able to stay within the server for round after round, so we can get that cohesiveness.

This game has so many issues and missing stuff that it really is hard to pin point where it needs to start. Getting An actual class system back up is a good start but that needs to be followed right up with server browsers and a consistent server..agreed?

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No, i do not agree.  Im done debating game mechanics with someone who hasnt even played the game for 10 hours.

There is a several thousand post long thread about server browsers that gets ignored.  We have been hammering them on it where have you been?

Yet again, something that needs to be tweaked and fixed then.

Trust me, even on BF4 it is hard do go against a good pilot, especially with random but that really is no reason to make heroes that can do it all. It IS a reason to go back and tweak some things to the stealth help though. Maybe lengthen the window of weakness it has between the hack and getting the firewall back up?

Maybe adding a feature to Rao where he can keep the hack going for as long as he keeps sight on the target, making the target able to be locked on indefinitely? Kind of like a soflam for hacking?

Not giving up on hammering them. Clearly sooner or later they will respond on the issue, look how long it took them with the class issue and we have been hammering them about that for just as long...

Again, I really don't need to actually play it to understand that the whole hero shooter nonsense doesn't work for the Battlefield franchise.

Clearly these operators will need some tweaking to get to where the game is an actual Battlefield game. Like wise the vehicles and such also needs some tweaking.

I admit that it had potential but getting there is the struggle...

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@ace_wolf08 wrote:

Again, I really don't need to actually play it to understand that the whole hero shooter nonsense doesn't work for the Battlefield franchise.

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you need to actually play to understand the game mechanics that are in place and that are being upended.  how you think it will go without playing it and reality in the game are two different things

@Prof3ss0r_M1k3 I've played the game for 30 at launch and it shows how flawed are the specialist like it or not this change needs to come for become more balance, promotes teamplay and a Good Game Readability (I know this character can has C5, M5 or Ammo crate like how most Battlefield game does it) We play Battlefield for Battlefield not Call of Apex so again we won't find another game and we won't allow this game to revert back to the Specialist System. If you think alot of players will leave you're totally wrong. We want this game to succeed especially the franchise itself 

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@UnKnOwn_1628042 wrote:

@Prof3ss0r_M1k3 I've played the game for 30 at launch and it shows how flawed are the specialist like it or not this change needs to come for become more balance, promotes teamplay and a Good Game Readability (I know this character can has C5, M5 or Ammo crate like how most Battlefield game does it) We play Battlefield for Battlefield not Call of Apex so again we won't find another game and we won't allow this game to revert back to the Specialist System. If you think alot of players will leave you're totally wrong. We want this game to succeed especially the franchise itself 

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classes didn't force players to be team players in any other battlefield, what makes this one different.  EVERY past battlefield game had people complaining that people don't do "team play"

you knowing what someone carries really isn't that important.  it is a control thing.  you want people to play YOUR way.  taking away freedom for me to play the way i like isn't going to make me more of a team player.  i used to be the guy who would switch to whatever was needed, carry ammo, deal with vehicles, etc.  i won't be doing that in the future.  if this change goes through and i stick around i'm not helping anyone.  i'll look out for number 1 and that's it

dice and EA figured out that they can make money off skins.  that is going to be a PERMANENT thing in the franchise going forward (if the franchise survives this game).  thinking you will ever get rid of specialists is like thinking they will take the ultimate team loot box thing out of FIFA.  it is a revenue source they won't give up.

@Prof3ss0r_M1k3 Go do your own thing and don't help I don't care because alot of players will return once season 3 and Classes will return, Alot of Battlefield fans will do more teamplay that what you expect, this isn't about the freedom, it's for the sake of game balance and proper game readability and this change will certainly go through like it or not, Classes are coming back with "Gadget Restrictions" which is miles better than the Specialist System we atm.