Re: Hit Registration

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@sk1lld wrote:
@UP_LordPlumber

When I see these kinds of things, I suspect I was already dead according to the server. And my inputs were being ignored.

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From that picture, that's exactly what happened. This happens to me all the time.

There seems to be a big discrepancy between what you see and what other players see at times. I wished that Dice would explain what's causing that to happen instead of telling us that it's been "fixed" in this upcoming patch.

I've played plenty of other games with much lower tick rates and they didn't feel as off as BF2042 does at times.

The other day I took damage before actually peeking the corner. I ran up to it like I was going to peek, stopped, and took damage while being completely behind cover. My guess is that it has something to do with some sort of server prediction? Or maybe the server thought I did go beyond the wall, and the tick updates are just too spread out to be accurate? It was really weird. 

Dice had to sacrifice a lot to get that 128 player count. I have a feeling that there is something off with how players (client side) report themselves to the servers. Like it's not synced up well? With some players it's noticeably much worse. It's not as precise as it should be.

@ATFGunrYour shots get ignored when the server decided that the other player hit you first, and that you died. On your screen, you may have shot more after that point, but the server goes backs and checks that. I wouldn't say that shots are being ignored, more like they get revised because if you were dead, you shouldn't be able to shoot? I feel like there's something off with lag compensation, or something with how players and servers are communicating the updates to each other. There's a bit of discrepancy with that.

Keep in mind that there's what your game is reporting to you, which is not bound to the 45 tick rate server. Then there's the server checking every 22ms to see if that's true. At least that's my understanding.

Higher tick rates definitely help a lot with how a game will feel. I totally agree with everyone saying that 60hz or higher would be fantastic for 64 player maps. I don't think that's a realistic expectation for 128 players though. I think that would use too much CPU?

There's a lot to networking, and there's all sorts of knobs Dice can't twist and turn. I'd like to know why it's so bad at times, and how it could be fixed in the future.

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@RaginSam wrote:

@ATFGunrYour shots get ignored when the server decided that the other player hit you first, and that you died. On your screen, you may have shot more after that point, but the server goes backs and checks that. I wouldn't say that shots are being ignored, more like they get revised because if you were dead, you shouldn't be able to shoot? I feel like there's something off with lag compensation, or something with how players and servers are communicating the updates to each other. There's a bit of discrepancy with that.

Keep in mind that there's what your game is reporting to you, which is not bound to the 45 tick rate server. Then there's the server checking every 22ms to see if that's true. At least that's my understanding.

Higher tick rates definitely help a lot with how a game will feel. I totally agree with everyone saying that 60hz or higher would be fantastic for 64 player maps. I don't think that's a realistic expectation for 128 players though. I think that would use too much CPU?

There's a lot to networking, and there's all sorts of knobs Dice can't twist and turn. I'd like to know why it's so bad at times, and how it could be fixed in the future.

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I'd have to hope that with the current generation consoles that 60hz+ would be possible for 128. Maybe not on old-gen [but they don't have access to 128 anyway]. Unless it is server-side CPU that would be hit too hard, which sounds like a pretty lame excuse, to be honest, considering in previous games with community servers you could have 100tick servers with 64 players.

Or ultimately, 128 was a mistake, but they kept the settings the same for ease instead of making 64 player play better than 128 by having extra hz.

@RaginSamThe ping/ALAT and tickrate do not add up for some of these cases I'm seeing myself and from others unless somehow the enemy player has ~500 ping AND is getting favored. I've literally had cases where I will shoot at an enemy, instinctively flick to the next when I feel I've shot enough, NOT kill them, start aiming back, then the enemy dies. At <50m range, with LMGs/ARs. I have a normal reaction time, this is happening in at least the span of 200ms, which is way beyond multiple ticks. And no dropped packets icon.

Average players can't even properly tell the tickrate in CSGO https://youtu.be/a9kw5gOEUjQ?si=i6UpRczxmlvx8Rid&t=509
TLDW at 128 tick, 64 tick and 47 tick, 53%, 53% and 46% respectively thought the server was 128 tick.
Most ways people used to tell the tickrate before CS2 were literally engine issues anyways, like grenade trajectories or scrollwheel bhopping.

It is much more likely that something underlying is just broken than that the tickrate is low... If it actually is 45hz. I have gotten rubberbanded on terrain (no enemy, no holes, no destruction, no nothing) on corners with a wildcat or tank, within the span of ~500ms. This should not take this long if my vehicle was simulated at 45hz. I have seen Minecraft's ugly rubberband "teleporting" endermen at 20hz, this is even slower. I have even seen air vehicle debris that outright stops being interpolated, simply teleporting between places. Maybe helicopters dust so much because they're 15hz while infantry is 45hz?

At launch, you could go into a bot server, find a swarm of them, start magdumping and your shots would not register. Too many bots in one place for serverside spread to be a factor, people were not dying for that to be a factor either, bots have no latency and you could've had 20-40ms ping and still bad hitreg.

No game is perfect - CSGO also had atrocious hitreg when people jumped or planted. And those had nothing to do with the tickrate. But CSGO also provided certain tools to debug - replays, visible hitboxes, serverside+clientside shots, spread. 2042 offers none of those, though it does offer other networking stats at least. AFAIK there isn't an official statement on whether or not 2042 has serverside spread to blame part of the discrepancy in shots hit that people show from that networking menu. And I have seen hackers who seemingly have no spread.

I feel even merely showing the true spread when ADSing (even hipfire spread seems fake!) would be a massive eye opener. At least, it would be nice to know if sidestrafing with a sniper rifle actually works after they added spread to them, and how long it actually takes for the spread to reset for many weapons after spraying.

@Lady_One  There's a lot of weird stuff going on with this game for sure. 

I made a thread about how after reloading your gun, it would keep swaying afterwards, which would increase spread for a couple seconds. Sometimes my gun is a laser, while other times it looks like shotgun pellets coming out of my M5A3. Hip-fire is so wildly inconsistent in this game.

There was something in the patch notes about exceeding a certain angle while firing that would cause some sort bug that would then increase spread or recoil. Like how is that even possible? Why?

From the Patch Notes: Fixed an issue that resulted in some high recoil, fast-firing weapons from gaining vertical recoil after the angle exceeded a certain value.

It's one thing to program stuff in a studio and test that in house, and then it's a completely different thing to have it in the real world played over the internet. That's the problem with a lot of newer games in my opinion. They're overly complicated with too many mechanics, which then causes all sorts of weird issues. For example, when jumping off a small ledge, your character will do a stumble animation. For multiplayer games, I feel stuff like that just adds a lot of clutter. That's my take at least. 

With the vehicles teleporting, I believe depending on the distance, the tick rate can fluctuate. It's very noticeable with Jets, probably since they're the fastest moving vehicles in the game. When I was sniping a lot, it was noticeable with Infantry as well. Lots of rubber-banding and jerky movements.

There's just so many things that are really weird in this game.