Re: It seems like the Nightbird will remain unchanged in 5.0.0

@AngrySquid270For example make Liz more agile? Ace pilots can farm and ruin the server. Sad that DICE doesnt do anything to the vehicle-ground meta when it comes to the NB.

Except defacto slightly passively buffing the NB, since they're also taking away sundance anti-armor grenade.

I dont see how adding the FLAK cannon to the transports will deal with Ace pilots, as they usually stay out of FLAK and RAO range while attacking.

T1 Whirly Bird guy here - Yes, it can be super powerful and the feeling of slapping the bottom right out from under a tank with a backhand chop from God is unlike anything else... HOWEVER, I think it's balanced by the fact the hull is essentially made out of paper, basically the entire front of made out of glass you can shoot through (unlike the new Bolte), and it's parts can get damaged fairly easy.

Next patch will bring in stationary AA so there is an added layer of defense for ground troops as well

@TTZ_Dipsy 

It's hardly paper armor. It shares the same damage profile as the jets, but with a far smaller hitbox. And it doesn't matter what the armor is if the shots miss. Adding zeros indefinitely still results in a sum of zero. Which brings us to the comical maneuverability. Crank the sens to max and you can easily dodge many of the vehicle based lock missiles not to mention make yourself an extraordinarily difficult target for your enemies all without compromising your aim. And even if you do get hit you can have two players repairing you and then aren't doing they they can augment your offensive capabilities with rockets and laser designation. 

The Nightbird should be returned to its original intended role of being a scrappy low profile insertion transport/scout that can perform hit and run and light air support. Right now it's got the best of all worlds. Fast, highly agile, small hitbox, infantry support, spotting, potent offensive weaponry. Something's gotta give. I suggest:

• Minigun Starting Damage Dropoff distance shortened
• Rocket Pod ammo from 10 > 8
• AGM ammo from 2 > 1
• Maneuverability reduced to decrease missile dodging capability

That still leaves it with plenty of power to make an impact but the focus will go back to stealthy infantry insertions and ground support.

@rainkloud 

AGM going from 2 to 1 would make it useless for any vehicle. If an enemy tank was at full health you'd still also have to hit it with at least an entire 20mm or whatever it is cache (and they already have the worst overheat and recovery).

Minigun is useless lol, sure you can just remove it entirely once you get the next upgrade, I don't think anyone would mind.

It'a near impossible for anyone to manually designate anything in any air vehicle let alone something that naturally has to whip around like the Night Bird - I'd love if a pilot would just hold still for 2 seconds so I could help em out other than repairs.

I play on console so I cant just crank sensitivity up - I firmly believe PC and consoles should be separate with unique control adjustments.

Nightbird is literally open on both aides with a giant window lol - it has the worst opportunity for recieved damage next to the tuktuk.

@Kona_uk 

Other than civilian vehicles, I'm pretty sure every vehicle has a maintenence upgrade. A single Stigla is capable of Crippling a Nightbird with like 80% damage and the front which is all glass is vulnerable to regular gunfire. 

😕

Did you even read my post?

Minigun useless? Your hyperbole is nauseating. Do you get paid for each instance of the word "useless"? To recap: The Nightbird should return to its original purpose which is scout/transport and it should be orientated towards light infantry support and against vehicles as a contributor or finisher of vehicles. It should not be running around 1v1'ing heavy armor. It should be used in a combined arms role to tilt the outcome in your group's favor.

You're saying they removed the helicopter sensitivity in this video or that it has no effect in console? https://youtu.be/K-EL-nPAjmE?t=600

Just because you don't have a partner that works with you in the passenger seats doesn't mean that others don't.

And this "fragile" glass you keep referring to is actually powerful enough to stop 20mm and higher rounds from penetrating through to the pilot as well as their blast damage.

You've been repeating your mantra so long that you probably believe it, but once you arise from your bias coma you'll see that the Nightbird is caricature and mockery of the game in its current iteration.

I agree with AngrySquid!!!! Dice/EA have a notorious history of bad air vehicle controls and while mastering their * controls is quite a feat, it should not be rewarded with ridiculous kill streaks. Your fun should end where others' sadness begins. Just because you are good, doesn't mean others should have a worse experience playing the game. What I'm trying to say is, vehicles are made OP because they are hard to control- because they are hard to control, dice buffs them to give players incentive to play them. In reality, DICE/EA should be less focused on balancing the vehicle's weapons based upon how hard it is too fly and more on making it easier to fly. 
Solution:
-Nerf Helicopter weapons - Make Heli controls better

Results:

-Increased vehicle utilization -No one going on game-ruining kill streaks -More Balanced Gameplay

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@Wargame_Enj0yer wrote:

@AngrySquid270For example make Liz more agile?

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@Wargame_Enj0yer Restoring Liz's rocket agility would certainly help against ace NB pilots, but it'd also affect every other vehicle and every other skill level.  I think the ace NB problem needs a more targeted solution.

I'd experiment with tradeoffs in the defensive loadout:

Ace Package:  Unlimited flares, reduced maneuverability

Frequent Flyer Package:  Limit of 10(?) flares, +50% health as unrepairable armor

Noob Package: Limit of 5(?) flares, +100%health as unrepairable armor, otherwise status quo

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@rainkloud wrote:

@TTZ_Dipsy 

It's hardly paper armor. It shares the same damage profile as the jets, but with a far smaller hitbox. And it doesn't matter what the armor is if the shots miss. Adding zeros indefinitely still results in a sum of zero. Which brings us to the comical maneuverability. Crank the sens to max and you can easily dodge many of the vehicle based lock missiles not to mention make yourself an extraordinarily difficult target for your enemies all without compromising your aim. And even if you do get hit you can have two players repairing you and then aren't doing they they can augment your offensive capabilities with rockets and laser designation. 

The Nightbird should be returned to its original intended role of being a scrappy low profile insertion transport/scout that can perform hit and run and light air support. Right now it's got the best of all worlds. Fast, highly agile, small hitbox, infantry support, spotting, potent offensive weaponry. Something's gotta give. I suggest:

• Minigun Starting Damage Dropoff distance shortened
• Rocket Pod ammo from 10 > 8
• AGM ammo from 2 > 1
• Maneuverability reduced to decrease missile dodging capability

That still leaves it with plenty of power to make an impact but the focus will go back to stealthy infantry insertions and ground support.

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I love this idea

Nightbird pilot could have no access to weapons.

Then the passengers would be the ones doing the shooting with its weapons..

This would require teamwork between the Nightbird pilot and his gunner(s) which would be a good thing.

@VOLBANKER_PCI think the problem is the rockets, they are too effective against infantry.

The NB is so agile and moves so fast that infantry just "gets randomly killed", which is really destroying the fun. Infantry have no way of avoiding the NB and you often can't even hear it coming (which wouldn't help anyway).

It is a flawed mechanic and we had the same problems with bombs in BFV and BF1.

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@VOLBANKER_PC wrote:

Nightbird pilot could have no access to weapons.

Then the passengers would be the ones doing the shooting with its weapons..

This would require teamwork between the Nightbird pilot and his gunner(s) which would be a good thing.

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This could be a good solution. 

Who really appreciated the thermal imager for the Night Bird? I personally did not understand why it was given to the passenger, what potential it gives. A useless decision, why was it stuck to the passenger, DICE reckoned that the player would fly with the pilot and say where the accumulation of infantry ?! I'd like to hear that dialogue.