So I tried a Controller for a few days
I've been trying out a controller for the better part of this past week to see if Aim Assist is really that strong, it is. One issue I had when playing against Console players is that they would sho...
Forum Discussion
@Foffe75 wrote:Nothing new here, pc-players arguing that any controller compensation must be nerfed, while forced crossplay still is no problem. While console players generally don't recognise those fantastic aim assists etc at all, and would prefer not to play against pc and let crossplay be an option by active decision instead.
By the way, out of curiosity, there must be tons of YouTube videos demonstrating the fantastic aim assist and other extreme benefits of playing with controller?
Did you even read my post? I used a controller and it was very strong in a lot of situations.
I have an alt account that I use to exclusively play Redacted. I have over 22k kills on that account, with a 11.5 human kd, and with an average of over 50 kills per match. I'm giving these stats because I'm a sweaty try hard Redacted player, so I think that gives me at least some credibility for judging the games mechanics?
Overall, I perform about the same with either peripheral, but I have 1000's of hours playing with a mouse. With a controller I just didn't have to concentrate as hard because the game would take over for you. Visual clutter is something that gets discussed often among PC players, we really need to see the freaking target clearly to be able to track well. Console players don't need to be as precise in those situations. Using a shotgun I felt VERY confident. Put my crosshair at the edge of a wall and whoever comes flying through is done. It just doesn't miss.
The problem I have, and maybe other PC players, is that I'm not a Charity Case for Console players. I want to lose gunfights because I over extended, or whiffed a shot. I don't want to lose to someone that tracks me through a bunch of visual clutter flawlessly. I don't want to die to someone using a controller and shotty because the game gives them a free kill basically if I don't catch them off guard.
Movement on a keyboard is definitely easier for me, but I've watched people play with controllers in many different games, and a good player looks like they're using a mouse. So if you have good movement with a controller, it's a big advantage in a lot of scenarios. The problem with controllers is that it doesn't fit everyone's hands, while with a mouse you can find one that fits your hand no problem.
My suggestions for balancing wasn't very extreme either, if anything it's too little, but at least the game would feel a bit more fair. Recoil shouldn't be reduced by 25% for controller players and Snap to Target should be reverted to what previous BF games had. I didn't even touch on how Rotational assist will just latch onto player, and you won't miss regardless of how they try to strafe.
Sorry but AA in battlefield 2042 doesn't work like this, if you have your crosshair on a corner and a player runs out it will not track on its own, you still have to put input into the stick. Sticky aim aids in tracking but does not do it for you. Its not like COD AA, it does do this. Then there is the visual clutter you speak off. I haven't tested everything but have with smoke, video below. There is no aim assist of any form whilst a player (shooter or target) is in smoke, zero. It will not track or snap to a target in smoke. The 25% recoil reduction is in place due to the different inputs. I have demonstrated superior aim with a mouse (noob mouse player btw) compared to my aim as a controller player and I am known for having very good aim. If I can control recoil as easily as that with a mouse what can a player much better than me do. I also demonstrated in same video that AA doesn't aid recoil control either.
On movement, please don't get me started on that, video soon. Simply put pc movement is superior. What many pc players do no realize is that on a controller when running and then having to take your thumb off the stick to press say jump. In the time it takes to do that and then return to the stick, you are not in control of your aiming. The time that it takes to do this, if a pc player is looking at you, you are dead. Thumbsticks are analog also, response isn't instant, there are build in dead zones plus response curves. To strafe it takes time to build up speed, keys are digital, movement is instant. Strafing speed will always be faster with a keyboard. So many more things I could say. But will leave it at that, break is over.
PC recoil vs Console Recoil - https://youtu.be/Qytkvh8bzng
Does AA work in Smoke - https://youtu.be/NE-d8ybl4os
- @YT_SMKGAMING be very much welcome to this forum.
You’re one of only two ‘BF’ YT-content creators that I care to follow.
Always respectful, helpful and without an ego. @TheseusJasonhey, many thanks, I just try to dispel some of the misconceptions around all the pc vs console stuff with actual proof from my own testing. Both are in the wrong with many things and its about trying to highlight to both to help with their understanding and see each others point of view.
@YT_SMKGAMING
While appreciating the effort in creating the video I wound like to stress that your comparison of recoil patterns between PC and console was not wrong, but completely unrealistic of what is important when playing.
What you are missing when looking at the patterns is that neither on PC nor on console you would magdump, but you burst. And therefore (almost) the only thing that matters is the initial multiplier and how far the bullets per burst are spread apart. And the Symthic multiplier values are taken from the game files and not measured IIRC, so they are accurate, so the horizontal multiplier is there as well, but did not really show in your tests (try this again over larger distances and you will see that one as well).
For close distances as you have shown what you have presented is indeed true of pure mag dumping, but in these instances I would not even try to aim but hipfire in most instances. And most other good and experienced players would neither. You need to do this test over larger distances and not so close up and do realistic bursts lengths. Not sure which maps you are playing, but mag dumps that RARELY happen in the game. At least for good players and over larger distances when shooting at single targets.
Do 40+ meters and then burst (depending on the weapon) the number of shots you would need in game. I am not saying that the result will be completely different, but I notice that if I die to controller players, then I get killed in one single burst more often than not. For PC players not as much. To me this suggests that the grouping of the initial burst allow console players to land more shots on me than PC players that need to follow up with more bursts. While I would be dead in the console case I might survive if the PC player is not good at tracking and not landing enough hits on the second burst. Some of my observations might indeed be explained by confirmation bias, but I am confident that the core statement I made is true and should be easy to verify in a more realistic test.@ForumUserHey, I think I replied to you on the YouTube video already but I think you misunderstand the purpose of the video. What you are saying is correct, burst firing at distance is important to maintain accuracy. You seem to be talking about time to kill more here though. If we are looking at ttk, pc will still win as bursting with a mouse is far faster compared to the trigger on a controller. Also easier to control too as I demonstrated, but also because a trigger has 1) more travel and 2) a deadzone, it slows bursting down on a controller compared to a mouse. But this video was purely about disproving a myth. See if you are being killed quicker by controller players in your view the following could explain it. I can tell you it isn't because of lower recoil or being able to control it better compared to pc and mnk. Its because they cannot control the recoil and its pulling their aim up to your head faster. This will be even more evident at a greater distance. I really don't think some players understand how bad many controller players are
- @YT_SMKGAMING
Yes, that we me yon YT 😉
But if this were the case: "Its because they cannot control the recoil and its pulling their aim up to your head faster." then this would mean that I would kill faster with weapons with more vertical recoil as I -- as a decent to good M&K player -- would have a harder time controlling it? I can assure you that this is not the case and I definitely kill faster with guns that have less recoil. 😉
In any case, TTK is what counts IMHO. The time to land enough bullets do deal 100 damage to a target. And all the stuff the have to put on controllers to make them able to compete -- which is required as without it there is no way they could of course -- is just BS.
They really should get rid of crossplay. Or more precisely, they definitely SHOULD have crossplay, but allow native M&K support on console and give the PC the option to run with controllers. Then have 2 pools for crossplay, separated by input method. This would get rid of the discussion and everyone would be happy (as much as one can be, given the flawed game design decisions in 2042 to begin with, but that is both console and PC players have to deal with if they want to continue to play anyway).. @ForumUser" I can assure you that this is not the case and I definitely kill faster with guns that have less recoil." Yes because you are going for headshots straight away cause you can control it and can stay on the head. With controller users they go for waist or chest. If they have snap aim on it is likely to be the waistline.The problem we have here is that you have pc players not understanding controller mechanics and likewise controller users not understanding pc. Then there is the difference between TTK and TTD.
Let me ask you a question here, you have a perception built in your mind around controller players, they have assists that help them and give them an unfair advantage. That much is clear. So what happens when you get killed by said controller player, you remember it, it sticks in your mind. Another pc player? Forgot within seconds even though it was just as fast. They don't have assists, it doesn't bother you. But the controller player, that fast TTK of that player and that happening over and over again only reinforces your belief, incorrect or not.
So do you think your dislike for AA and reduced recoil etc with console players has influenced your belief that they can kill you faster than pc players. Could it simply be the disparity between TTK/TTD and you only remembering the controller engagements. Or.... you really believe that controller players really are more accurate and can kill faster
I know myself, killed by a pc player, the thought of hacker would cross my mind, console player? Never does it cross my mind. I am more likely to put a pc players apparent skill down to something else compared to a controller player. But being aware of this helps me stay objective in my videosOn crossplay, I like it as an option, but should be off by default
@YT_SMKGAMINGKeep in mind, it's not just a Console thing, you can obviously use a controller on PC as well.
I still stand by everything I've written in this thread. Aim assist will definitely stick to a player coming out of cover, you have to give the game some input though. Like I've said before, aim assist kicks in more when you give the sticks even a little bit of input. Otherwise it will not fully track an enemy.
I've seen players move like MnK players using a controller. I've watched many streamers, YouTubers, and friends use controllers. Not everyone can manage that type of movement, and I'll agree that it is easier on a keyboard, but there's plenty of people out there that can do it. Are they doing that weird claw grip thing, or maybe using paddles? I don't know, but watching them play, it would be hard for me to be 100% sure that they were on controller at times.- @RaginSam @YT_SMKGAMING
I remember a video where Enders was talking about controller vs mouse. He and a friend of his (Baranox I think) who is really good with controller have concluded that both ways of control are pretty much even in terms of infantry vs infantry with the mouse being slightly ahead in some cases where one is controlling vehicles.
@YT_SMKGAMING wrote:Sorry but AA in battlefield 2042 doesn't work like this, if you have your crosshair on a corner and a player runs out it will not track on its own, you still have to put input into the stick.
Wrong. Yes it does track on its own. I've seen it many times when I turned aimbot on. Normal aimbot, not auto rotation aimbot, aka the kind of aimbot that isn't supposed to do that.
@RaginSam wrote:@YT_SMKGAMINGKeep in mind, it's not just a Console thing, you can obviously use a controller on PC as well.
I still stand by everything I've written in this thread. Aim assist will definitely stick to a player coming out of cover, you have to give the game some input though. Like I've said before, aim assist kicks in more when you give the sticks even a little bit of input. Otherwise it will not fully track an enemy.
I've seen players move like MnK players using a controller. I've watched many streamers, YouTubers, and friends use controllers. Not everyone can manage that type of movement, and I'll agree that it is easier on a keyboard, but there's plenty of people out there that can do it. Are they doing that weird claw grip thing, or maybe using paddles? I don't know, but watching them play, it would be hard for me to be 100% sure that they were on controller at times.Or they map jump to LB and crouch to RS like you're supposed to.
- @RaginSam "you have to give the game some input though. Like I've said before, aim assist kicks in more when you give the sticks even a little bit of input. Otherwise it will not fully track an enemy" It will not aid tracking at all without stick input. No input and the player runs away, if you don't attempt to follow or don't put enough input in, the player runs away. And when I say input, this isn't with the aiming stick, tracking only kicks in with the left stick. Your own player has to be moving too.
Paddles help players perform actions without taking the thumbs off the sticks. But only those who are somewhat serious bother with an elite or pro type controller. But even these cannot mimic pc movement. This is not my opinion, this is simply how it is. Analogue sticks do not produce instant movement. If you want to strafe and move to the right first you fully push the stick to try and reach max acceleration as fast as possible. That movement not only takes longer than a "D" key press, but even when you have it fully pressed to the right, that isn't maximum speed, not right away. So by the time you then want to go left not only have you more distance to cover with the stick to push it to the left from the right, but you didn't even move that fast to the right to begin with. What it ends up looking like is a side shuffle. Decreasing deadzones, changing response curves and increasing sensitivity can help with this. But will never be instant and max speed like pc players can do with the adad spam. Youtubers and content creators are not a reflection of the wider player base. We have pro controllers, we have paddles that can help us. But looking at it from a hardware perspective, it can never be as good.
This is why all these assists are there in the first place, aiming and movement is inferior. The assists are aimed at trying to balance all that out. @BFPlayer10No it doesn't, I look forward to your video evidence on this. You always have to have input on the sticks to have tracking help out. You literally haven't mentioned a single proper name for the forms of AA in the game. Aimbot? You referring to snap aim? it snaps to target, but does not track either
@YT_SMKGAMING wrote:@BFPlayer10No it doesn't, I look forward to your video evidence on this. You always have to have input on the sticks to have tracking help out. You literally haven't mentioned a single proper name for the forms of AA in the game. Aimbot? You referring to snap aim? it snaps to target, but does not track either
I'm going from ingame experience. Any player can walk in front of your crosshairs and it will drag as the player passes by. This has been confirmed by Quagsie in an Enders video on crossplay over a year ago. Sorry, I dont clip footage of stupid stuff like this. I will call aimbot what I like. You know very well what I'm talking about, no need to make me conform to terms i will not use.
@BFPlayer10Not if there is no input on the sticks. A player standing still and player runs past, nothing will happen. All the information I have on aa in Battlefield has come from Julian Manolov aka _jjju_ who helped code AA in battlefield since BF4. Plus my hundreds of hours testing it in portal servers
@YT_SMKGAMING wrote:@BFPlayer10Not if there is no input on the sticks. A player standing still and player runs past, nothing will happen. All the information I have on aa in Battlefield has come from Julian Manolov aka _jjju_ who helped code AA in battlefield since BF4. Plus my hundreds of hours testing it in portal servers
Fair enough. I never said you don't have to be moving for it to work. Regardless, regular aim assist as you might call it should not be doing that. That is a trait of "rotational aim assist". Bugs do occur in this game from time to time.
As for movement on a controller, nothing is stopping anyone from mapping movement to the d-pad, jump to LB, and crouch to RS. I own a controller with paddles and I can assure you, it is not necessary to use paddles because I use the exact same controller mapping on a regular controller (paddles mapped to the sticks, and sticks disabled to prevent wear & tear).
Changing controls should not be seen as anything above casual. If someone is going to spend an average of 2-3 working hours to pay for a video game, it should be expected that they can spend a few minutes in the settings menu to change their settings. The definition of casual in modern gaming is becoming a synonym for what we used to call being completely brain-dead.
