@X-Sunslayer-XCan he revive himself ? Can he face 10 players by himself ? Can he drive and shoot in a hind and repair it ? Can he heal and place a squad beacon ? Can he heal and repair ?
Nope Angel is a support and support are now " medic + support combined FALK and Angel are in the same classes now wich if they choose can give both Amo and life You realise bad company 1 had a support that can heal and repair vehicles ?
SUNDANCE AND MCKAY ARE FINE they serve the same roles as light assault in planetside 2 .. flanking and using verticality Stop blaming the game for your incompetence or lack of awareness i have no problem with them i expect them anticipate
@X-Sunslayer-XDude you have some real issues if you think a solo player can do all that .. please post a video of yourself taking on an entire team by yourself with angel please i am waiting ...
Youve also complain about Mckay and sundance having flanking ability and using verticality ... So i doubt you are even good enough to win a 1 vs 1 so forget about a 1 vs 10 as angel ..
Mckay and sundance are Assault just like planetside 2 light assault classes they are flankers who can break camping lanes barrage and use verticality to do so .. this is actually why BF2042 is way better ...
If you have not learn to expect left right up and down already then blame your snail pace learning capabilities not the game itself .. The design is great as is !
@Stew360 wrote:
@X-Sunslayer-XPlease show me BF2042 stats not BFV wich is a WW2 " wich i dislike " * game i barely played few hours of lol thats said ..
Why anyones play Falk ? Healing box have very long cool down can be destroyed .. Falk and Angel revive team mates 10 times faster than normal players .. Falk and Angel can revive other squads players while non support players dont see them as revivable . Falk can heal team mates at distance and herself so yeah plenty of reason to play Falk
So because you didn't like the game you were bad?
Community ManagerHey all,
Can we cool it with the insults please? There's no need to go at each other for a difference in opinion.
If it keeps happening we may have to lock this thread. Thanks!
So read through most all this thread. A few contributing and constructive thoughts. Preface this with..
1. The class system of old needed to evolve in some way, lots of ways to do that without abandoning the core feature.
2. Specialists are not it... They were the wrong approach to take for said evolution. And there current implimentation does in fact promote selfish play (coupled with zero local comms..)
What do we do now? I dont believe EA will allow devs to completely abandon them but I dont think you have to. You can both fix the situation and also have it be an evolution of what should be core to the game. Very simply put a soft restriction on gadget slot. So Casper for example is considered a recon specialist so his gadget slot would be restricted to recon gadgets only along with any specialist tagged as "recon". Leave weapons and grenades class agnostic. Last thing that would need to be done is a rebalancing of specialists as some are way too self sufficient. So after these changes the game needs a proper command structure and comms. Which to give an actual working design from another 100 player game, Hell Let Loose, in game comms are split into 3 channels: Squad, command, and an open proximity chat channel. Need ammo? Simply throw it out on the open prox chat and boom anyone near you with ammo could answer. And then for 2042 command channel would just be for squad leaders to coordinate pushes with other squad leaders. This works great with nothing but random players in Hell Let Loose and I dont understand at all why devs thought it was great to just not have it..
@Stew360I am with ya. I think the specialist add a much more dynamic into the BF formula that the old class system ever could. The classes are still there though. People seem to either not realize that or want to ignore it. But I have to ask would people still complain if the classes were still there but DICE opened them up so anyone who could use any weapon or gadget? When playing Portal I feel so restricted with the class system.
I have the same opinion that specialists are the evolution of the class system, it brings more freedom to build the class of your choice.
In my opinion the old class system only favours premade teams but in normal matchmaking the majority of the players are randoms and not premade.
With the specialist every player can be useful with the class of his choice and supporting the squad and the whole team. Now every player is even with their picks of weapon and gadget.
I think most of the players need to adapt the new system and get used to the new playstyle that BF2042 give to us.
See you on the Battlefield 🙂
@Stew360okay step by step again
1."Angel cannot heal team mates at range and angel give 20% amor on revives so the player will gets 70HP being revive with angel and 120 later on if not shooted on"
- yes you are correct but the healing from the med-bags is infact instantanious for the most part so technically he does give them 20% more HP that way. on a different note ever since BF4 med-bags were implemented which work identically to the Syrett pistol so basically Falk is in fact a direct copy of what the former assault/medic class was in other BF games. her "special ability is she is the most class-system based specialist 2042 has to offer.... hmhmhm seems telling....
2."Of course Angel can be considered better by some but Angel cannot heal himself with the Injector unless he trade his gadjet for a injector"
-he infact does not need to trade anything, just have a loadout crate ready and you can drop/supply yourself with whatever you need/want... if i remember correctly his cooldown is about 10-20s, that is his trade off to beign a self sufficent specialist.
3."As for Who gets what gadjets .. Ive already asked Dice to improove this by making an Icon over peoples heads to show wich gadjets they are using"
-oh if that is the case why are we having a discussion since oyu asked DICE to "fix" it
4."But knowing who have amo crates or who have repair tool if you have played previous BF games and are honest you already know you could stand in front of a support screaming " I NEED AMO " to have them never give amo"
-yes i do know the fact that less then able players would not play their role well in previous games, thats why Visceral games back in BFHardline implemented the System to take ammo/healt off the player carrying the respective boxes, DICE then copied them in BFV again, only in 2042 i can only really be sure Angel can and will provide Ammo because he has that as is trait. Again something they already fixed/improved in 2 different games with class-systems, only now i have to hope they do it actively again. so i guess back to square one on this....
5."Thats said at least in BF2042 when you have health or Amo or whatever you can see who needs amo or who needs health so if you are a team players you will give them amo or health"
-this does not help me if i am in need of supplies again.
6."The specialist system is AMASING for squads who are willing to play as a units , and if we had better platoon and squads structure and communication we could do amasing things with the specialist system"
-well could've should've might've are speculations for IF DICE even wants to improve upon the communication errors. While i do agree that a very organised squad can use the specialists synergies, i.E Hack a heli with Rao and then shoot with FMXAA, that was also possible for squads who wanted that with a class-system. Given we never had a class with a hacking gadget to my knowledge other then 2142-engineers, but that is again something a gadget slot would have fixed just as well as it is now.
7."Mckay and Sundance are amasing to flank Lanes campers .. Irish double walls can be used in many usefull manners . BOris turrets is great to spot or distract ennemys . and so on and on"
-yes Mckay and Sundance are better at that, but hear me out on this one, most players do not play in a squad/teamwork oriented manner. i for one always play with at least one friend on Team-Speak, but we know we are a minority group in BF, the vast majority of players does not care. So having cheap and lazy auot-turrets is a good thing? i prefer actual gameplay then placing down a mobile Wall-Hack gun and then "reap" what is left over by said auto-aiming turret. regarding Irish, i find his walls to be rather useless and in a different thread i leanred that apparently a lot of players do not even know about his secondary gadget, his "thropy-system" that supposedly blocks grenades and rockets ( but ofc the heli rockets are not affected by this because that would mean they could nto farm with impunity, but that is a different issue)
8."As for loadout its way better the way it is"
-freeing up loadout-selection made the game less enjoyable for me. in every BF game until BFV you could identify what is coming for you and what to expect from this engagement and then plan accordingly. now it is just a flustercluck. Again controlled chaos vs. pure chaos, there is a difference even if you do not want to think that way
9."MAG had a skilltrees system that can be compared to the " specialist " wich were active passive abilitys then the loadout was freeform just like BF now"
-2042 actually takes away most of your freedom with the gadget selection. in BF4 for example you could have an support with ammo and C4, making it an extremely potent obstecal clearer, in 2042 you have to play Angel to get that, given you can pick any weapon now, but that opens a whole new can of worms with weapons that are objectively better then the rest.(its called play the META or get played by the META)
10."Because MAG had a proper team structure"
-kind of a mute point because you are comparing apples and pears at this point, Hell Let Loose has a class -System and also has teamplay much more engrained then other games.
11."BF need that at least 16 players lobby composed of 4 players squads ... so 16 players would be a " platoon " we need VOIP proximity chat with allies . We need Better squads and platoon and team structure its the only thing that would improove TEAM LEVEL team work ..not terrible classes system that made no sens like previous BF games"
- i agree squad size should at the very least be increased to 6 if not 8. but then again 2042 does not really reward you for objective play. BF1 for example multiplied your Score if your entire squad would attack a marked objective, 2042 does not you get a fixed score.
12."On a Squad level of friends the current 2042 system is better than any previous BF and allow more variety , more synergy in the squads , better mix and match of classes and gadjets and better controle on what the squads is meant to achieved .. there is no denial in that and none of your anecdotes would change that !"
- how can i achieve synergy then in a squad of randoms.i can see their specialist, but i have to guess what they are currently having in their load-out. is the Sundace flying around using a beacon? or should i spawn on her and place one ? is that Rao using a M5 or a FXMAA? is Casper using C5 or an ammo/health box?.in BFV i could see at a glance what a squad might need, if there is no support in the suqad i can choose to play as such and resupply them, 3 medics in a squad? okay let me be assault and deal with the vehicles/fortifications. 4 recons in a squad? okay let me leave thsi squad rigt away since their combines mental capacity is equivalent to an ant....
Okay that last part might be a bit mean towards the ant but it do be late.....
@Stew360Do agree that old classes weren't perfect. But just making the class setup "do whatever you want" is a lazy design choice that isn't better than the old class system... just different with its own equal amount of pros and con. What it is currently is Call of Duty not Battlefield so its not evolving anything but simply abandoning one system for another. Specialists in no way equate to a class with a single unique gadget and trait but is quite literally what CoD specialists are in standard multiplayer. What I suggest is an evolution at least in the sense that rigid classes have access to all guns and each class has specialist which would essentially be subclasses. With a pre-made squad, no matter the class setup, coordinating roles is never hard. Having classes is what helps guide solo players into being useful (or supposed to) to the team instead of playing selfishly. Someone said it earlier in this thread but a solo player left to their own volitions with always swing for whatever is "meta" for getting kills.. how to guide solo players into being team oriented with their choices is the actual problem that needs to be solved. 128 players with completely open loadouts lets say half are pre-made squads (which is generous imo) means 64 players are just yolo yeet train with their setup currently. How do you solve that problem in relation to specialist system vs rigid classes? It would be nice if devs would release specialist pick rates because we only have anecdotal observation to say pick rates would prob have McKay and sundance dominating with Angel in at second. Sundance and McKay are far and away the two most selfish picks you could make for team comp.
Adding some fuel to the fire...
I'm getting old, I used to buy games in boxes off the shelves based on magazines review but I understand time changes and now every AAA game need to offer Heroes, DLC and micro transaction for pure profit because the new generation of player don't mind spending their savings on cosmetics ... not fighting that as long as I don't get rekt by a pay to win weapon or boost.
So I am 100% behind the specialist decision as everyone cas use them (so far) and it won't hurt my gaming experience to not spend any money in this. But the point here is to make a difference between Heroes/Classes/Equipment/Gameplay.
Specialists have bonuses, they can apply whatever classe you decide to play. An engineer flying a drone? No problem. A medic deploying a turret? Weird but I can live with it. Assault hacking a tank? Perfectly fine. The problem start when the core role of someone in a team is not defined.
- We need medic because without them we run out of tickets. So we need someone to pick this "class" and help the team not bleed all their ticket trying to push a checkpoint.
- We need engineer for their sheer explosive power and their focus on tank and aircraft. Other players are taking care of infantry knowing they don't also need to focus on vehicles.
- We need snipers to keep vehicles and infantry from camping a rooftop or trying to get around the map. They are everyone's eyes and do the recon to push on sites going unnoticed. They are lone wolfs but can help other squad spawn closer to a checkpoint while everyone fight on the front line.
- And we need assault because they are the main fighters, the one that get the kills done and push objectives, They know they can do that because they have supports from medic. engineer and snipers. If they go a bit further and dies they have a chance to make the front line move slightly further and still be revived by a Medic close by.
So the question here is now what makes a class ... a class? As I've said it's not the Specialist, it's the gameplay and the Equipment. It's the function someone taking this class decide to assume.
- Snipers recon : give them recon gadgets, long range weapons, spawn points and high power hit with limited ammo. They don't need to carry a med pack or a AA missile. If they want to use Mackay to move faster on top of building that's perfectly fine.
- Medic heal : give them med pack, defibrillators, mid range guns so they stay in action where they are needed. Give them a self res even if it helps make the class more interesting. If they want to use Irish to protect their team with barricades while they revive that's a perfect fit.
- Engineer break tings : give them massive explosive power and make tanks fear them. C5, AA, M5, whatever gets the job done is on the table. If they want to mix it with Casper to C5 a drone, sure go for it, they are still doing their engineer job, just exploiting Specialist to do so.
- Assault get it done : give them machine guns, rifles, pistols. whatever they need to kill people on objectives because that's what we need them for. If they want to use Sundance to reach objectives faster that's fine.
Specialist and Classes work perfectly fine together, but what we need is people to assume a role on the battlefield. How many time have I died surrounded by "Medic" who were only taking Angel for his drop. I've had a tank badly damage in the middle of "Engineer' shooting AA at the sky but no one repairing my tank. I've, countless of time, ran after them screaming for munition in the void.
The point is, for as long as you can do a loadout like Recon + AC42 + EMP + M5 or Medic + shotgun + Incendiary + AA ... then nothing makes sense and I won't know where to go if I need health, ammunitions or anything else.
So yes, I would love to see "limited" loadout that you can take with any specialist as long as the loadout makes sense as a all. And I would love the exp points to be rebalanced. A recon should not make 50 points for spotting targets or they will camp Casper Drone and not participate. Medic should get extra point if the player they revived gets a kill within 30 seconds. Engineers should get massive bonus for taking down a tank and if they hit it even once, get a fraction of the bonus for their assistance. Soflam should be greatly rewarded for their assistance and Assault should get bonus points when chaining kills because that's what they do.
If the rewards were balances to help people pick a class they prefer, there would be a variety of players helping each other and no one would complain about Heroes even if all the 30+ years old we've become definitely would have preferred the game without them.
@WinterbornGuardBut why do people need to be incentivised to do any of these things?
I like to make sure my squad, and those near by have ammo, I don't do it solely for points but because it helps.
I like to repair Tonks and keep them fighting, I don't do it solely for the points but because it helps.
I like to revive and throw out health.... you know where this is going.
The main problem is the Church of the Almighty KD and even though that can't be seen in BF2042, to many people still chase it above anything else.
@Stew360okay step by step again then....
1."Wrong Angel can only revive faster . Angel cannot heal team mates at range and angel give 20% amor on revives so the player will gets 70HP being revive with angel and 120 later on if not shooted on .. And would get 100% HP right away being revived with Falk so in the heat of a battle being revived by Falk is better and being far from heavy combat being revived by angel is better"
2."But Falk and Angel are both " Medic/support " so are both in the same branch and its fine to me .. Of course Angel can be considered better by some but Angel cannot heal himself with the Injector unless he trade his gadjet for a injector .. So yeah but you would argue on pure non sens"
3."As for Who gets what gadjets .. Ive already asked Dice to improove this by making an Icon over peoples heads to show wich gadjets they are using"
4."But knowing who have amo crates or who have repair tool if you have played previous BF games and are honest you already know you could stand in front of a support screaming " I NEED AMO " to have them never give amo .. As for 2042 even if you know they have amo they might be on cool down or might not want to give you amo .. Thats the thing and the classes system never helped with that it only made it more frustrating "
4."Thats said at least in BF2042 when you have health or Amo or whatever you can see who needs amo or who needs health so if you are a team players you will give them amo or health"
5."The specialist system is AMASING for squads who are willing to play as a units "
6."There is a lots of good teamplay combo .. like Locking on air vehicles combine with RAO hacking wich is insanely powerfull if used with the proper timing and communication .. Dozer can also be usefull to push elevator and corridor and his passive resistance to explosive help a lots .. Mckay and Sundance are amasing to flank Lanes campers .. Irish double walls can be used in many usefull manners . BOris turrets is great to spot or distract ennemys . and so on and on"
7."As for loadout its way better the way it is"
8."MAG had a skilltrees system that can be compared to the " specialist " wich were active passive abilitys then the loadout was freeform just like BF now and the teamplay in MAG was a billions time better than it as ever been in ANY BF ever even BF2 wich was the best BF with the commander in terms of structure but was still chaotics "
9."Because MAG had a proper team structure .. An Officier in charge wich could broadcast to the entire team and not any Newbee could be OIC or platoon leader .. you had platoon leader who could speak to his 4 squads leaders but also broadcast to his entire platoon then you had squad leaders who could speak to others squad leaders and squad mates 8 players per squads 32 players platoon 128 players team .. 256 players match .. And we had engineers repairing bunkers , AA turrets , Arttilery battery , vehicles and so on . We had tons of medics . we had tons of demolitions who destroyed ennemy bunkers , we had everything that we needed without any rigid classes system because we could have 32 players lobby to get into 128 to 256 players games .. MAG also had proximity chat with team mates"
10."On a Squad level of friends the current 2042 system is better than any previous BF and allow more variety , more synergy in the squads , better mix and match of classes and gadjets and better controle on what the squads is meant to achieved .. there is no denial in that and none of your anecdotes would change that "
2042 has not really improved much with specialist. in fact any "passive" ability they have could just as well have been a gadget and it would not have made any difference. what you also seem to have forgotten is teh fact 2042 takes one gadget slot away from you, unlike any BF game since BF3 where you had 2 slots to pick and choose from a class-specific selection.....
but hey details
@Trokey66I am the same type of person in that I naturally want provide support where needed and am in general team minded first. "Church of Almighty KD" players are exactly the problem and is what LogKyles was eluding too with:
"Specialist and Classes work perfectly fine together, but what we need is people to assume a role on the battlefield. How many time have I died surrounded by "Medic" who were only taking Angel for his drop. I've had a tank badly damage in the middle of "Engineer' shooting AA at the sky but no one repairing my tank. I've, countless of time, ran after them screaming for munition in the void. "
the "how" for players who are not naturally inclined to do so is what is needed. That's why creating incentive matters here, not for us who already do it, but for people who would normally be selfish and or do not know any better. That incentive doesnt only have to be given to players as a reward like more xp for doing (x) support related action. It could be by making support actions an equally compelling experience on the level of killing.
