Specialist and freeclass system is Better than the OLD Class system VIDEO inside

So read through most all this thread.  A few contributing and constructive thoughts.  Preface this with..

1. The class system of old needed to evolve in some way, lots of ways to do that without abandoning the core feature. 

2. Specialists are not it...  They were the wrong approach to take for said evolution.  And there current implimentation does in fact promote selfish play (coupled with zero local comms..)

What do we do now?  I dont believe EA will allow devs to completely abandon them but I dont think you have to.  You can both fix the situation and also have it be an evolution of what should be core to the game.  Very simply put a soft restriction on gadget slot.  So Casper for example is considered a recon specialist so his gadget slot would be restricted to recon gadgets only along with any specialist tagged as "recon".  Leave weapons and grenades class agnostic.  Last thing that would need to be done is a rebalancing of specialists as some are way too self sufficient.  So after these changes the game needs a proper command structure and comms.  Which to give an actual working design from another 100 player game, Hell Let Loose, in game comms are split into 3 channels: Squad, command, and an open proximity chat channel.  Need ammo?  Simply throw it out on the open prox chat and boom anyone near you with ammo could answer.  And then for 2042 command channel would just be for squad leaders to coordinate pushes with other squad leaders.  This works great with nothing but random players in Hell Let Loose and I dont understand at all why devs thought it was great to just not have it..

@Stew360okay step by step again
1."Angel cannot heal team mates at range and angel give 20% amor on revives so the player will gets 70HP being revive with angel and 120 later on if not shooted on"
- yes you are correct but the healing from the med-bags is infact instantanious for the most part so technically he does give them 20% more HP that way. on a different note ever since BF4 med-bags were implemented which work identically to the Syrett pistol so basically Falk is in fact a direct copy of what the former assault/medic class was in other BF games. her "special ability is she is the most class-system based specialist 2042 has to offer.... hmhmhm seems telling....
2."Of course Angel can be considered better by some but Angel cannot heal himself with the Injector unless he trade his gadjet for a injector"
-he infact does not need to trade anything, just have a loadout crate ready and you can drop/supply yourself with whatever you need/want... if i remember correctly his cooldown is about 10-20s, that is his trade off to beign a self sufficent specialist.
3."As for Who gets what gadjets .. Ive already asked Dice to improove this by making an Icon over peoples heads to show wich gadjets they are using"
-oh if that is the case why are we having a discussion since oyu asked DICE to "fix" it
4."But knowing who have amo crates or who have repair tool if you have played previous BF games and are honest you already know you could stand in front of a support screaming " I NEED AMO " to have them never give amo"
-yes i do know the fact that less then able players would not play their role well in previous games, thats why Visceral games back in BFHardline implemented the System to take ammo/healt off the player carrying the respective boxes, DICE then copied them in BFV again, only in 2042 i can only really be sure Angel can and will provide Ammo because he has that as is trait. Again something they already fixed/improved in 2 different games with class-systems, only now i have to hope they do it actively again. so i guess back to square one on this....
5."Thats said at least in BF2042 when you have health or Amo or whatever you can see who needs amo or who needs health so if you are a team players you will give them amo or health"
-this does not help me if i am in need of supplies again.
6."The specialist system is AMASING for squads who are willing to play as a units , and if we had better platoon and squads structure and communication we could do amasing things with the specialist system"
-well could've should've might've are speculations for IF DICE even wants to improve upon the communication errors. While i do agree that a very organised squad can use the specialists synergies, i.E Hack a heli with Rao and then shoot with FMXAA, that was also possible for squads who wanted that with a class-system. Given we never had a class with a hacking gadget to my knowledge other then 2142-engineers, but that is again something a gadget slot would have fixed just as well as it is now.
7."Mckay and Sundance are amasing to flank Lanes campers .. Irish double walls can be used in many usefull manners . BOris turrets is great to spot or distract ennemys . and so on and on"
-yes Mckay and Sundance are better at that, but hear me out on this one, most players do not play in a squad/teamwork oriented manner. i for one always play with at least one friend on Team-Speak, but we know we are a minority group in BF, the vast majority of players does not care. So having cheap and lazy auot-turrets is a good thing? i prefer actual gameplay then placing down a mobile Wall-Hack gun and then "reap" what is left over by said auto-aiming turret. regarding Irish, i find his walls to be rather useless and in a different thread i leanred that apparently a lot of players do not even know about his secondary gadget, his "thropy-system" that supposedly blocks grenades and rockets ( but ofc the heli rockets are not affected by this because that would mean they could nto farm with impunity, but that is a different issue)
8."As for loadout its way better the way it is"
-freeing up loadout-selection made the game less enjoyable for me. in every BF game until BFV you could identify what is coming for you and what to expect from this engagement and then plan accordingly. now it is just a flustercluck. Again controlled chaos vs. pure chaos, there is a difference even if you do not want to think that way
9."MAG had a skilltrees system that can be compared to the " specialist " wich were active passive abilitys then the loadout was freeform just like BF now"
-2042 actually takes away most of your freedom with the gadget selection. in BF4 for example you could have an support with ammo and C4, making it an extremely potent obstecal clearer, in 2042 you have to play Angel to get that, given you can pick any weapon now, but that opens a whole new can of worms with weapons that are objectively better then the rest.(its called play the META or get played by the META)
10."Because MAG had a proper team structure"
-kind of a mute point because you are comparing apples and pears at this point, Hell Let Loose has a class -System and also has teamplay much more engrained then other games.
11."BF need that at least 16 players lobby composed of 4 players squads ... so 16 players would be a " platoon " we need VOIP proximity chat with allies . We need Better squads and platoon and team structure its the only thing that would improove TEAM LEVEL team work ..not terrible classes system that made no sens like previous BF games"
- i agree squad size should at the very least be increased to 6 if not 8. but then again 2042 does not really reward you for objective play. BF1 for example multiplied your Score if your entire squad would attack a marked objective, 2042 does not you get a fixed score.
12."On a Squad level of friends the current 2042 system is better than any previous BF and allow more variety , more synergy in the squads , better mix and match of classes and gadjets and better controle on what the squads is meant to achieved .. there is no denial in that and none of your anecdotes would change that !"
- how can i achieve synergy then in a squad of randoms.i can see their specialist, but i have to guess what they are currently having in their load-out. is the Sundace flying around using a beacon? or should i spawn on her and place one ? is that Rao using a M5 or a FXMAA? is Casper using C5 or an ammo/health box?.in BFV i could see at a glance what a squad might need, if there is no support in the suqad i can choose to play as such and resupply them, 3 medics in a squad? okay let me be assault and deal with the vehicles/fortifications. 4 recons in a squad? okay let me leave thsi squad rigt away since their combines mental capacity is equivalent to an ant....
Okay that last part might be a bit mean towards the ant but it do be late.....

@Stew360Do agree that old classes weren't perfect. But just making the class setup "do whatever you want" is a lazy design choice that isn't better than the old class system... just different with its own equal amount of pros and con. What it is currently is Call of Duty not Battlefield so its not evolving anything but simply abandoning one system for another. Specialists in no way equate to a class with a single unique gadget and trait but is quite literally what CoD specialists are in standard multiplayer. What I suggest is an evolution at least in the sense that rigid classes have access to all guns and each class has specialist which would essentially be subclasses. With a pre-made squad, no matter the class setup, coordinating roles is never hard. Having classes is what helps guide solo players into being useful (or supposed to) to the team instead of playing selfishly. Someone said it earlier in this thread but a solo player left to their own volitions with always swing for whatever is "meta" for getting kills.. how to guide solo players into being team oriented with their choices is the actual problem that needs to be solved. 128 players with completely open loadouts lets say half are pre-made squads (which is generous imo) means 64 players are just yolo yeet train with their setup currently. How do you solve that problem in relation to specialist system vs rigid classes? It would be nice if devs would release specialist pick rates because we only have anecdotal observation to say pick rates would prob have McKay and sundance dominating with Angel in at second. Sundance and McKay are far and away the two most selfish picks you could make for team comp.

@Stew360okay step by step again then....
1."Wrong Angel can only revive faster . Angel cannot heal team mates at range and angel give 20% amor on revives so the player will gets 70HP being revive with angel and 120 later on if not shooted on .. And would get 100% HP right away being revived with Falk so in the heat of a battle being revived by Falk is better and being far from heavy combat being revived by angel is better"

• true Angel can not "heal at range", but the old medic class could do that. making falk the clostest thing we have to a classic class-set-up.... funny how that works out now don't you think?

2."But Falk and Angel are both " Medic/support " so are both in the same branch and its fine to me .. Of course Angel can be considered better by some but Angel cannot heal himself with the Injector unless he trade his gadjet for a injector .. So yeah but you would argue on pure non sens"

• the issue remains that Angel does nto need a different specialists, he can heal himslef with the med-bag/pen, he can rearm and replate himselfe and if he needs a mroe explosive approach he can just call in crate and switch... how do you synergise with that?

3."As for Who gets what gadjets .. Ive already asked Dice to improove this by making an Icon over peoples heads to show wich gadjets they are using"

• if that is the case then everything must be fine now.....

4."But knowing who have amo crates or who have repair tool if you have played previous BF games and are honest you already know you could stand in front of a support screaming " I NEED AMO " to have them never give amo .. As for 2042 even if you know they have amo they might be on cool down or might not want to give you amo .. Thats the thing and the classes system never helped with that it only made it more frustrating "

• true, but Visceral games fixed that issue in BF-Hardline. they impelmented the system in which you could just pick the ammo/health off from anyone using the according box of the players directly. DICE then copied that system in BFV... 2042 does not have this system.....

4."Thats said at least in BF2042 when you have health or Amo or whatever you can see who needs amo or who needs health so if you are a team players you will give them amo or health"

• yes if i teamplay i can do that, how does that help me if i am in need of supplies myself? i can not even begin to guess who can give me what in my squad or clsoe area, unless i find a Falk player or Angel player and they then do what they need to to help me. Funny how these two are again the clostest we have currently to a classic class set up isn't it.....

5."The specialist system is AMASING for squads who are willing to play as a units "

• oh you mean how classes have been since the dawn oh BF1942? an organised squad can always make the best out of what is given but most players do not play in organised squad, so they get the worst of it more often then not...

6."There is a lots of good teamplay combo .. like Locking on air vehicles combine with RAO hacking wich is insanely powerfull if used with the proper timing and communication .. Dozer can also be usefull to push elevator and corridor and his passive resistance to explosive help a lots .. Mckay and Sundance are amasing to flank Lanes campers .. Irish double walls can be used in many usefull manners . BOris turrets is great to spot or distract ennemys . and so on and on"

• true, but like i said before classes in essence did the same, only difference was he did not really hava a hacking gadget since BF2142s engineer class, that could hack ground vehicles and force the users out of said vehicle. While Mckay and Sundance are better at flanking, they are still more or less selfish at it and rather cheap i might add since both make the flow of the game go out the window for anyone else. Dozer is rather one dimensional and i do nto remember anyone beign very fond of any shield in any BF game ever, so take it as you want. Irishs barricade is also rather minute i find the "thropy system" much more interesting since it does combat some grenade and rocket fire coming in for and take some heat off the area, but again his passive could've just as well be a simple gadget. fpr example an engineer class... but hey details. as for Boris, i persoanlly find the idea of automated turrets that then spot you and keep you 3D spotted and outilne spotted trough walls, essentailly a wall-hack, downright insulting. but DICE does as DICE does..... looking at you Paik.

7."As for loadout its way better the way it is"

•  the issue is in any other BF game until BFV you were able to * any situation and get a general idea of what you are facing and plan accordingly. BFV and 2042 have tossed out any semblance of this out the window, the latter even more then the former. in 2042 i can only guess/hope to see the outilne of the weapon the enemy is using. as for what gadet they might have i know nothing. are they healing themselves again with a med-bag/pen? are they aiming a rocket at me to finish me off? are they placing beacons i have to search for?... again organised chaos vs. pure chaos there is a difference.

8."MAG had a skilltrees system that can be compared to the " specialist " wich were active passive abilitys then the loadout was freeform just like BF now and the teamplay in MAG was a billions time better than it as ever been in ANY BF ever even BF2 wich was the best BF with the commander in terms of structure but was still chaotics "

• Hell Let Loose has a class-system with teamplay deeply engrained into it, you are comparing apples and pears. 2042 takes a gadget slot away from the player. in BF4 for example the support could use the ammo-box and C4 to really help clearing out tanks or areas. in 2042 i must pick Angel to get the same uttility, given i can pick any primary weapon now but that opens a new can of worms. (weapon balance becoames very very difficult then..... either play the META or get played by the META)

9."Because MAG had a proper team structure .. An Officier in charge wich could broadcast to the entire team and not any Newbee could be OIC or platoon leader .. you had platoon leader who could speak to his 4 squads leaders but also broadcast to his entire platoon then you had squad leaders who could speak to others squad leaders and squad mates 8 players per squads 32 players platoon 128 players team .. 256 players match .. And we had engineers repairing bunkers , AA turrets , Arttilery battery , vehicles and so on . We had tons of medics . we had tons of demolitions who destroyed ennemy bunkers , we had everything that we needed without any rigid classes system because we could have 32 players lobby to get into 128 to 256 players games .. MAG also had proximity chat with team mates"

• again different games have different design choices, 2042 just took the worst idea in my opinion and ran with it. games like Hell Let Loose are using classes, in fact i think most casual games in the niche are using classes for ease of use and readibility.

10."On a Squad level of friends the current 2042 system is better than any previous BF and allow more variety , more synergy in the squads , better mix and match of classes and gadjets and better controle on what the squads is meant to achieved .. there is no denial in that and none of your anecdotes would change that "

• i do agree, better/bigger squad systems could help with improving some issues but for the most part the issue remains. in any previous BF game i could tell at a glance what my squad needs. 2 medics already in it? okay so i will pick support to resupply them, or engineer to help fight away tanks, or recon to spot for them. in 2042 all i can see i stheir specialists with no clue in the world of what they might need. is that Sundance using the inerstion beacon? should i spawn on her and place it or does she need supplies ? should i pick the M5 to help combat the inevitable vehicles? what about the McKay swinging up the building, does he need healing or does he use the med-bag/pen? ammo or armor? what about the 4 caspers over on the map-border?

2042 has not really improved much with specialist. in fact any "passive" ability they have could just as well have been a gadget and it would not have made any difference. what you also seem to have forgotten is teh fact 2042 takes one gadget slot away from you, unlike any BF game since BF3 where you had 2 slots to pick and choose from a class-specific selection.....
but hey details

I want to play Battlefield,not some half-assed cod/apex wanna be game.  If EA is trying to get more people on board, its not through some half-assed cod/apex wanna be game. People play those games do their thing,and they do it well. Battlefield  needs to do its thing and not try to be something its not 

Meh I'm with the OG classes, haven't seen anything ground breaking or game enhancing that the old class system didn't cover! Think matey is in the minority!