The Question of Aim Assist

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@TwentyValve wrote:
@Moab23so by your logic, aim assist is the issue because when you turn off cross play you have better games.
there's no way it could be lag, sync issues, lag comp, low server tick rate, hit detection, or even just a better player?

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Right? These arguments for killing crossplay "most" times don't boil down. It's either a controller vs. KBM thing, (which is bunk because PC can use controller) or PC is more powerful than Console which I don't necessarily agree with either. PCs aren't optimized for gaming like consoles are, and people aren't updating their PC as often as console because it's expensive. Lastly, there are other titles that have console vs. PC or controller vs. KBM without an issue. 

I've been saying all along and will continue to say "THIS IS A GAME CODING ISSUE, not a game platform issue"

@DuaneDibbley Well aware of why Aim Assist exists and I'm not against it. And you're missing my point entirely...

Go do a search at a purple snake streaming site for a particular title. Pick them at random and look. You'll see some are controller, some are KBM. Some are console and some are PC. But they are ALL playing the same game together and there isn't a true rave to end crossplay like there is here. PC players have played Battlefield and other titles for years using either a controller or MKB and there was never this much moaning about controller vs. KBM. Some yes, but never like this....

Your point about balance between the two is valid. They should be equally competitive and are in some cases. What I'm 100% against is ending crossplay simply because of an imbalance of game input. MKB is so borked right now anyway. I'd rather them fix the issues and balance the two. And it CAN BE DONE, because other titles have done and are doing it.

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@Echo6Echo wrote:

And it CAN BE DONE, because other titles have done and are doing it.

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Specifically which other 'forced' crossplay games do you believe have solved the KBM vs. Controller concerns?

@TwentyValve 

Considering the terrible matches by far are always the ones with the console players, yeah, its the console players and their aim assist. The only good game I had recently with crossplay on was a late one when hardly any of the players in the match were console players. I just finished a set of matches with crossplay on because I couldn't get a game otherwise, and again we're seeing perfect headshots through smoke, losing close quarter fighters, and snipers landing shots that clearly missed by a mile. 

I got sniped out of an Su-57 after banking around and coming in at about 30 degrees down on Renewal, heading toward C1 from beyond the wall. At least 300m up, over 700m away. The moment I came out of that turn and levelled out, I'm suddenly hit in the head by a console sniper who is standing off to the side of my line in. Not in front. Off to the side. So they line up a shot, lead me while on afterburner as I'm travelling downwards at an angle, fire that shot with enough lead, and land a perfect headshot on me in literally one second, because that's how long after I levelled out did that shot hit me. 

A 700m headshot on a high speed moving target that you are not aligned with, which is changing altitude at the same time, at a distance where normal infantry in even the 10x power scope are tiny. 

In the last match I set a player on fire, pursued them, looked at the one bit of cover available they were behind, and shot them in the head and torso. I knew where they had gone, so I could find them through the flames. They did not see me at all, yet I'm instantly killed at, you guessed it, about 15hp left on them. Console player. Perfect instant kill with poor visuals. Same match, console player instantly nails me in the head through a dense smoke cloud. This isn't people rattling off rounds in the hope of hitting something, this is people firing perfect shots at targets they cannot see and instantly capping their heads. Again, I can literally dump 30 Avancys rounds into their head and torso and they'll tank it and survive before killing at exactly 15-12hp. Are you going to tell me there isn't something amiss by these players constantly taking damage down to this level and then suddenly nothing will register, and they instantly kill me?  

More crossplay after PC only, and it is absolutely terrible. Instakills all around, shot through dense smoke perfectly. Getting zapped from full health at range with AM40s. Almost no rounds being fired at me to get a kill. Console players soaking up damage (down to 12hp as always) without dying and then instantly killing you. Its literally get a kill, die, get a kill, die, if you're lucky. In PC only I can run up streaks. Cannot do it at all in crossplay, because you are constantly locked onto and tracked perfectly. Out of 12 deaths, TWO were PC players. 

Second round, exactly the same. Headshot, headshot, headshot. Minimal fire. Perfect shots with GLs through tight gaps the second they step out. Its all just lock on. 

There is no lock on. I don’t care what * you are watching on YouTube.

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@AngrySquid270 wrote:

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@Echo6Echo wrote:

And it CAN BE DONE, because other titles have done and are doing it.

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Specifically which other 'forced' crossplay games do you believe have solved the KBM vs. Controller concerns?

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Sorry bud, not naming names, but I gave you enough info to figure it out. There are keyboard PC players, controller PC players, controller console players ALL playing the same game. Some of the most competitive players in said game use controller...against keyboard players. Explain that one...

Just from my experience, there is a night and day difference in the current aim assist than I have experienced in any other game. I don't think it is completely related to aim assist but aim assist is definitely part of it. There are just too many hours of gameplay where it is the same thing over and over again > if shot by console player = me dead.  For me it feels like the game is implying that one hit equals all hits (because aim assist is active) and then depending on the other player's ping, I get all those updates in one update and just die instantly. 

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@Adamonic wrote:

Just from my experience, there is a night and day difference in the current aim assist than I have experienced in any other game. I don't think it is completely related to aim assist but aim assist is definitely part of it. There are just too many hours of gameplay where it is the same thing over and over again > if shot by console player = me dead.  For me it feels like the game is implying that one hit equals all hits (because aim assist is active) and then depending on the other player's ping, I get all those updates in one update and just die instantly. 

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Consoles have 25% less recoil and spread plus aim assist. So less bullets miss.

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@OskooI_007 wrote:

Consoles have 25% less recoil and spread plus aim assist. So less bullets miss.

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First time I've heard anyone say that controller has less spread.  Where did you see that at?

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@OskooI_007 wrote:

Consoles have 25% less recoil and spread plus aim assist. So less bullets miss.

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The changes for controllers are:

Factor 0.75 for

• First Shot Multiplier
• Vertical Recoil
• Horizontal Recoil

Nothing about spread, so I'd guess spread is the same (unless you switch to burst file or semi-automatic, but then you will get the same benefits when using K&M).

You can checkout this video: https://youtu.be/axv0X42TnZw?t=33 or look up the stats on Symthic yourself).

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@DuaneDibbley wrote:

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@OskooI_007 wrote:

Consoles have 25% less recoil and spread plus aim assist. So less bullets miss.

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The changes for controllers are:

Factor 0.75 for

• First Shot Multiplier
• Vertical Recoil
• Horizontal Recoil

Nothing about spread, so I'd guess spread is the same (unless you switch to burst file or semi-automatic, but then you will get the same benefits when using K&M).

You can checkout this video: https://youtu.be/axv0X42TnZw?t=33 or look up the stats on Symthic yourself).

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Interesting, thanks for sharing! Looks like controller players just get 25% recoil reduction. But I'm pretty sure it stacks on top of other bonus modifiers, such as stance changes.

  A player's weapon will receive the following benefits depending on their soldier's stance:

• Crouched:
  • 0.9x FSM
  • 0.9x VRec
  • 0.9x HRec
• Prone:
  • 0.85x FSM
  • 0.85x VRec
  • 0.85x HRec

Mouse players can reduce their recoil 15% by going prone, but controller players can reduce their recoil 40% by going prone! Because the 25% recoil reduction for controller players stacks on top of the 15% prone recoil reduction.

So basically controller players can run and gun with less recoil than prone PC players.

I'm pretty sure recoil reduction for semi-auto weapons also stacks on top of the 25% recoil reduction for controllers. Which means a controller in semi-auto receives 45% less recoil compared to mouse's 20% less recoil.

If a controller player is laying prone with a semi-auto weapon, their recoil is reduced by 60% . With mouse it's 35% .

The Oldman_Pu would like to weigh in on this topic for several reasons. 

Firstly, I have seen a HUGE difference in game play since the changes made to enhance “Aim Assist” for console players.  Before delving further into this topic, let me provide some personal background to lend legitimacy to my point of view.  I have been around since the inception of video games – Literally.  I’ve played EVERY iteration of Battlefield and loved all of them, especially 2142.  This Battlefield addition IS and will forever be “egg” on EA’s face, and I acknowledge that they are attempting to make this game better all the time, but I believe it is too late ESPECIALLY after this most recent patch. 

This brings me back to my original thought – The HUGE difference.  This game since the patch is ridiculously different than prior to the patch BECAUSE of the unwarranted gift of an AIM BOT (let’s call a spade a spade) to the console players – FACT!  I’ve never been dominated by level 13 XBoxers or level 21 Playstationers in all my online gaming career.  These guys don’t miss now and it has completely ruined the game for me and many of my PC gaming friends, who are diehard BF fans.

Why did EA feel compelled to make this change?  I, personally, would love to know.  Was it to draw the kiddies who’s parent’s have limitless disposable income to spend on micro-purchases back into the game?  I digress – I’m sorry.  I would just love to have an explanation as to why EA felt they needed to enhance Aim Assist for the console players.  If EA gave an explanation, maybe it would make this PuPu-Sandwich a little more palatable.

Lastly, I fear that this game is going to be put to the true test as we are on the eve of the next COD launch.  Personally, I would play BF 10 out of 10 times as opposed to COD, but after this last patch, I think I’ll be much more inclined to step away from 2042 much easier than in the past.  Good luck EA retaining the miniscule player base that you currently have...

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@OskooI_007 wrote:

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@DuaneDibbley wrote:

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@OskooI_007 wrote:

Consoles have 25% less recoil and spread plus aim assist. So less bullets miss.

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The changes for controllers are:

Factor 0.75 for

• First Shot Multiplier
• Vertical Recoil
• Horizontal Recoil

Nothing about spread, so I'd guess spread is the same (unless you switch to burst file or semi-automatic, but then you will get the same benefits when using K&M).

You can checkout this video: https://youtu.be/axv0X42TnZw?t=33 or look up the stats on Symthic yourself).

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Interesting, thanks for sharing! Looks like controller players just get 25% recoil reduction. But I'm pretty sure it stacks on top of other bonus modifiers, such as stance changes.

Soldier Stance:

  A player's weapon will receive the following benefits depending on their soldier's stance:

• Crouched:
  • 0.9x FSM
  • 0.9x VRec
  • 0.9x HRec
• Prone:
  • 0.85x FSM
  • 0.85x VRec
  • 0.85x HRec

Mouse players can reduce their recoil 15% by going prone, but controller players can reduce their recoil 40% by going prone! Because the 25% recoil reduction for controller players stacks on top of the 15% prone recoil reduction.

So basically controller players can run and gun with less recoil than prone PC players.

I'm pretty sure recoil reduction for semi-auto weapons also stacks on top of the 25% recoil reduction for controllers. Which means a controller in semi-auto receives 45% less recoil compared to mouse's 20% less recoil.

If a controller player is laying prone with a semi-auto weapon, their recoil is reduced by 60% . With mouse it's 35% .

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The controller bonus is almost certainly being handled as multiplier rather than a sum of percentages as you are suggesting.

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@Prof3ss0r_M1k3 wrote:
@AngrySquid270good solution to this whole argument is to have cross play be xbox one vs ps4, xbox s/x vs ps5, pc only

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Sorry partner, I have to disagree. Yeah it may "solve it" but it's really just bypassing the issue. Aim assist on controller or KBM without aim assist can coexist. It does in other titles. The issue really is game code. Why don't they just fix that instead??

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@Echo6Echo wrote:

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@Prof3ss0r_M1k3 wrote:
@AngrySquid270good solution to this whole argument is to have cross play be xbox one vs ps4, xbox s/x vs ps5, pc only

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Sorry partner, I have to disagree. Yeah it may "solve it" but it's really just bypassing the issue. Aim assist on controller or KBM without aim assist can coexist. It does in other titles. The issue really is game code. Why don't they just fix that instead??

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I understand the KBM community has a number of grievances with the KBM performance and perceived performance of Aim Assist.  'Fix' those and I could see the KBM community being satisfied.

But what about the console community?  There was outrage even before the beta came out. You say this issue will be solved if they just fix the game code.  Which game code issues are preventing the console community from embracing crossplay?

Looks like developers are starting to nerf aim assist on PC and buffing it on consoles.

Aim assist in Apex operates under two different values. Console players have the internal aim assist set to “0.6” in the game files, a value that defines the strength of the sticky reticle effect. If you’re playing on a controller on PC, you’ll get a watered-down version of aim assist, set to “0.4,” which is far less than it would be on console.

https://dotesports.com/apex-legends/news/strange-apex-legends-glitch-turns-the-game-into-a-world-of-static

I'm tired of developers trying to 'level the playing field' using aim assist. There's nothing fair about any of this. Lobbies should be seperated by input type.

Ironically, Apex Legends does seperate lobbies by input type but I guess Respawn Entertainment feels that's not enough and PC controller players need to be nerfed more than console players. We might as well seperate lobbies by the platform type too.

I'm just tired of developers thinking they can make things fair and balanced using aim assist. What will developers start buffing and nerfing next in order to 'level the playing field'? Weapon recoil?

Just kidding, 2042 already has 25% less weapon recoil on consoles too.

Was there a change to aim assist in the last patch? It feels "stickier" if that makes sense. What I felt before, feels worse than ever. A lot more headshots too. Some crazy ones from long distances, while I am moving, which seems very sus. 

Once I am hit, there is nothing I can do to avoid dying pretty much instantly every time. If I am jumping, dropping down off a shipping container, sliding, or running in any direction, nothing prevents me from dying once there is the first hit. It feels like the game is saying that since I was hit once, I am dead, regardless of what I do or how I move.

However, when I am in a firefight with a PC player, I can move and avoid being killed after being hit. I still die sometimes, but I can actually jump, slide, and evade being shot and fight back.

Is anyone else experiencing this? This is not a crap on a platform thread, I am just curious if it is just me or the game.

Yup, 25% less recoil on console according to SYMTHIC.

Controller Input

When using a controller, a player's weapon will receive the following benefits:

0.75x FSM

0.75x VRec

0.75x HRec

https://sym.gg/?game=bf2042&page=weapon-mechanics