@GamerlnParadise wrote:I feel like the SOFLAM doesn't really need to be changed in terms of damage, but the lock-on time decrease is a good way to make it harder for air vehicles to escape if they don't make that their #1 priority.
I think buffing AA projectile velocity and damage, along with removing the sluggish turret acceleration (while still keeping rotation speed limits) will help while fighting jets. If that's not enough to improve their effectiveness against air, giving them a radar-based lead indicator would make it a lot easier to aim.
Honestly, I think with the greater numbers of players and other vehicles, I don't think the jet cannon max range needs a reduction, especially not with the spread and damage the way they are. Jets need that much increased lethality to be a viable spawn choice when attack choppers are much easier to do well with.
Thank you for your feedback!
It's always a challenge to reply to feedback on individual changes as this proposal is designed as a comprehensive plan and as such some items when looked at individually may not register
at first glance, but looked at in the context of the larger picture with all changes accounted for their existence should make more sense.
1) The SOFLAM changes have to be considered in the context of shorter range for the 30mm heli cannon, fix for the AA missile dodging bug, better traverse and maximum angles for the Wildcat AA, better damage for the Wildcat AA missiles and better damage for the 25mm jet cannon vs aircraft. I'm generally not a fan of OHK vehicle weapons to begin with and assuming with all those items factored in, having OHK (even for a "teamwork") weapon is overkill IMO.
2) The damage, at least at short range, is vicious. Admittedly though I haven't checked the droppoff so I will add that to my list of things to do. There definitely should be droppoff but if it is too severe like the jet cannon 25mm for example then it can cause an imbalance.
3) It's specifically the 30mm jet cannon that needs this as the 25 only ranges out to 800m and since it doesn't penetrate Wildcat armor there's little reason to adjust it. But Jet 30mm vs Wildcat AA you're looking at 1300m vs 700m respectively - almost double. For the SU57 this is not as big a deal (still a problem though) but for the F35 which can VTOL it can be a huge issue as you can simply kite the Wildcat and there is nothing they can do except run for cover.
Separately, although not explicitly mentioned, the damage dropoff adjustment for the 25mm Jet Cannon in the proposal would help increase damage vs infantry which would strike a good balance between jet vs infantry. They'll still have high spread cannons that discourage use against man sized targets BUT if they do decide to attack they'll at least do more damage. Conversely, infantry can be assured that if jets do want to strafe them effectively they'll need to get in close to do so which renders the jets vulnerable to AA counter-attack. This avoids a scenario where jets can kill infantry from 900m away leaving their teammates with no method of retaliation.
Thank you for your feedback!
It's always a challenge to reply to feedback on individual changes as this proposal is designed as a comprehensive plan and as such some items when looked at individually may not register
at first glance, but looked at in the context of the larger picture with all changes accounted for their existence should make more sense.
1) The SOFLAM changes have to be considered in the context of shorter range for the 30mm heli cannon, fix for the AA missile dodging bug, better traverse and maximum angles for the Wildcat AA, better damage for the Wildcat AA missiles and better damage for the 25mm jet cannon vs aircraft. I'm generally not a fan of OHK vehicle weapons to begin with and assuming with all those items factored in, having OHK (even for a "teamwork") weapon is overkill IMO.
2) The damage, at least at short range, is vicious. Admittedly though I haven't checked the droppoff so I will add that to my list of things to do. There definitely should be droppoff but if it is too severe like the jet cannon 25mm for example then it can cause an imbalance.
3) It's specifically the 30mm jet cannon that needs this as the 25 only ranges out to 800m and since it doesn't penetrate Wildcat armor there's little reason to adjust it. But Jet 30mm vs Wildcat AA you're looking at 1300m vs 700m respectively - almost double. For the SU57 this is not as big a deal (still a problem though) but for the F35 which can VTOL it can be a huge issue as you can simply kite the Wildcat and there is nothing they can do except run for cover.
Separately, although not explicitly mentioned, the damage dropoff adjustment for the 25mm Jet Cannon in the proposal would help increase damage vs infantry which would strike a good balance between jet vs infantry. They'll still have high spread cannons that discourage use against man sized targets BUT if they do decide to attack they'll at least do more damage. Conversely, infantry can be assured that if jets do want to strafe them effectively they'll need to get in close to do so which renders the jets vulnerable to AA counter-attack. This avoids a scenario where jets can kill infantry from 900m away leaving their teammates with no method of retaliation.
1. I suppose that is where our design philosophies differ. I remember in BF3 when they made SOFLAMs bypass flares, locking onto a designated cocky chopper pilot on Kharg Island Rush with a Javelin, seeing him and his gunner futilely panic flare only for the top down attack to blow them up was practically euphoric. "Teamwork is OP" was a mantra of past BF games, and with all the vehicles at play at any moment in these larger modes, I think the increased infantry lethality cooperation provides does a better job of maintaining balance against vehicles that should allow one person to handle disorganized groups of footsoldiers.
2. I think the damage should be vicious up close. If the Bolte can wreck with one 30mm, then 2 that fire faster should be terrifying. There's a reason why Arma players get scared whenever they hear a Shilka fire. That's why I also suggest lowering the HP on the Wildcat and increasing the speed of Carl Gustav rockets, so that it becomes a glass cannon that is putting itself at risk whenever it is near infantry. I would also say to extend the range of the Wildcat cannons to 800-900m, since it should be either a tank's job to snipe AA, or scout car's job to ambush them in order to open up the airspace.
3. I would say let's fix the damage/spread/velocity first, then see if a range reduction is needed. As it stands right now, in tests against AI with the F-35 in hover mode, the spread becomes so bad that after a few bursts of a couple seconds, I can barely hit a MAV at 100m. As someone who was an ace pilot back on the 360, I think the 30mm attack jets in BF3 were the pinnacle of air to ground performance in any BF game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQMl1xk3nVk
1) And anything that is OP is, by definition, in need of fixing - mantra or not. Teamwork is not a catch all that can be used to excuse imbalances. I can't go into the car dealership with my wife with $10k and say I want to by a car for $20k and say that my $10k is worth $20k because it was earned with teamwork. $10k is $10k and the benefits of the SOFLAM'd RR should be commensurate with the effort involved and with attention paid to the potential imbalances involved. In this case the SOFLAM still delivers tremendous benefits as it can be used for spotting which has enormous value and the ability to turn what is usually an anti tank weapon into an anti air weapon that saps 2/3 health from a target is still pretty huge
2) You can't take literally things like if 1 cannon does x then 2 of the same cannon should do 2x as Balance > symmetry. As an aside, this holds true in IRL as there are many variations in cannon types even among the same caliber not to mention that ammunition type has to be factored into the equation. Glass cannoning vehicles is dubious to begin with in MP but when you have 128 players it is not really feasible not to mention the Wildcat also functions as a troop transport of sorts and the prospect of 4 players getting dusted before they can react is not appealing. Extending AA gun ranges can also have profound effects as it can lock down too much airspace. Consider that multiple vehicles can potentially go AA guns and create no fly zones. And since they can go ATGM as secondary they don't necessarily give up too much anti ground vehicle capability. Across the board you see ranges down from past entries and I believe the was done intentionally based on lessons learned from BF4 and with a mind on the effects of 128 players on combat dynamics.
3) Firing in shorter bursts will alleviate that problem. The 30mm on the Stealth jet is not meant to replicate the effects of the GAU cannons on the attack jets (which were fundamentally different vehicles than the SJ's). In BF2042 land it is meant to give you some capability against ground vehicles that, when used in conjunction with the AGM, gives you excellent A2G capabilities while still being effective at AA. Decreasing the spread makes it more effective vs infantry (which I don't want to see as that is the job of the 25mm) as well as jeeps which already vulnerable to the A2M and are a transport vehicle so they need to be cut a little slack.
1) My position is the weapon lethality has to be considered in the context of the game which at its core involves 128 players and quite often multiple enemies targeting a single entity simultaneously. The countermeasures for jets in BF 2042 are multi purpose and although the in game description is limited to IR and radar I would venture that it would not be a stretch to conclude that they simultaneously have a mechanism that messes with a missile's ability to see and track the laser designation. As far aircraft limping off without being able to be KO'd I would contend that is where other aircraft or the MAA cannons come in to finish the job.
2) Fun in a multiplayer game is almost always derived at someone else's expense. Your enjoyment in killing comes at my expense at dying. In MP, the designers should never concern themselves with making sure that everyone has "fun" as that is a surefire recipe for disaster as you descend into a never ending game of whackamole trying to appease one faction's unreasonable desires only to evoke the ire of another. Rather, designers should look at the game as a whole and how all the various components fit in it and in what environment and conditions it takes place. If done correctly, then they'll have created a harmonious system and the bulk of players will flock to such a system because rather then exploit them, it provides them with a variety of well thought out mechanics and solutions to utilize resulting in a rewarding experience regardless of which vehicle, rifle, gadget and so on that they choose.
We know that even in such an environment the Jet pilot advocates will still complain because they want an experience that gives them the edge. Tankers will do the same with their agenda. All these extremist factions will still lobby just as corporations and interests do in "real" life as it is the nature of life in capitalism. That is to be expected, but is not cause for alarm for they are the fringes and do not represent the more sensible core that compromises the largest chunks of players. The developers must be the mature voice of reason in the room and provide education to the playerbase. They bear the responsibility of fostering years of asymmetrical balance where attack plane pilots went 120 - 1 and glitched Little Birds could sustain more abuse than heavily armored vehicles.
"It's like every other vehicle stat was decided with "well I wouldn't want this to potentially be OP" as the first and only thought in mind..."
My sense was they were employing many of the painful lessons learned from BF3/4 era combined with adapting the damage outputs/ranges towards the 128 player experience.
3) 2 AGM's bring the Bolte down to 16 health and in my proposal the 25mm would penetrate and do even better damage than the 30mm to help make finishing it off a forgone conclusion. This is especially true if you are providing CAS near your friendlies who are in a position to capitalize on your work even if the first AGM is CM'd and if the Bolte runs Missile Launcher then they forgo CM's which means they eat the AGM's. If they choose any of the mine options then they can't use system repair meaning their speed advantage is moot.
While I personally wish for the FLIR cam and same missile deployment style of BF4 in terms of balance I understand why this was requested by portions of the community and why DICE acquiesced. It gives ground forces and other aircraft an opportunity to pounce on you and compels you to closer range than the old style. This also allows the devs to make the dual MAA cannons have shorter range than in the past which is good as one of the near universal complaints of past BF's was the enormous range of the AA which made it difficult to balance it when it had to be tweaked for both jets and helicopters. The 1000m may have worked for jets but was oppressive to helicopters. Forcing AGM's to be deployed closer to target simultaneously allows the MAA guns range to be reigned in.
The F35 does fulfill that CAS role in the anti vehicle sense. The 30mm in conjunction with the AGM provides excellent effects against ground vehicles. A10 style CAS is only really possible when you have air superiority so in lieu of that you have multirole aircraft that can focus on air superiority when equipped with 25mm and AA missiles or for GA when equipped with 30mm and A2G missiles that allow them quickly hit targets and then get out of range of reprisal.
I was a leading proponent of and loved the fortification system in BFV, but I can understand its omission in 2042 as the focus is on mobile warfare - vehicles are faster, you have wingsuits and fast transports like the Condor. It probably just didn't make as much sense to invest a lot in static defenses so instead they went with things like Ranger and Boris's sentries.
"What I want is for vehicles to be feared and respected, not something infantry either casually ignore because they do so little damage..."
I'm afraid I can't offer much sympathy for this POV. Vehicles, even in their current state, have overwhelming advantages in TTK when employed correctly, especially when all the gunner positions and the spotter are filled. If they were as truly ineffective as you say they'd be collecting dust at spawn.
