What is the fascination with classes?

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@ragnarok013 wrote:
@PsubondClasses are one of the three bedrock pillars of Battlefield that makes Battlefield what it is since the very first Battlefield 20 years ago. Classes are an integral portion of the paper/rock/scissors balancing that made Battlefield balanced and predictable that 2042 completed eschewed. It is impossible to balance every permutation of hero/weapon/gadget that the community can come up with; it's far easier for DICE to balance weapons/gadgets around classes with their restrictions due to the aforementioned tradeoffs.

Classes prevent people from being a jack of all trades, it encourages weapon and gadget diversity because you have to choose between a specific weapon type and a specific role instead of everyone running the meta hero/weapon/gadget to be a lone wolf like you see in 2042 and Warzone. Overall it makes for a healthier more team oriented experience.

The real question is if one doesn't like Battlefield why play Battlefield and demand that the formula change to be something else when other games do what 2042 is copying much better?

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BF1's and BFV's Assualt class say hello 👋🏻 

I would even suggest BF4's Medic lifted their head at the mention of this.

Players have always run the 'meta hero (class)/weapon/gadget' regardless of how the classes are constructed.

Teamplay is in the hands of the players, those that want to teamplay will, those that want lone wolf meta, won't regardless of class/specialist.

You and I have been here long enough to remember all the 'insert class here' don't 'insert class role here' threads!  Specialists haven't changed that in and of themselves.

I am no fan of specialists personally and wouldn't be upset if classes returned in the next game but they are not as bad as people make out.

And as to clones (this bit isn't directed at you @ragnarok013 )

Clones of specialists - Bad

Clones of classes - Good

Makes sense......

Skins aren't spectacular but not to bad and faction skins would help but for me, not essential but one thing we can all agree on is the one liners.

@Psubond 

List the objective facts that illustrate why specialists are better than traditional classes.

We're all waiting

Some would say it creates a better structure and balance and provides for more teamplay oriented gameplay and for the refractor engine games I would agree but Dice Sweden has shied away from that kind of gameplay since the Bad Company days and honestly I've seen more teamwork in 2042 (albeit mostly by pure circumstance) than I have from previous frostbite games.

I would say a well balanced class system would be a lot better than what we have in 2042 but Dice Sweden hasn't been able to offer a well balanced class system since 2142.

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@AuramiteX wrote:

@Psubond 

List the objective facts that illustrate why specialists are better than traditional classes.

We're all waiting

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@AuramiteX i started the thread by asking a question. once you can answer mine and then i'll answer yours. i'm not the one trying to change the game the people who want to take away the flexibility of specialists and restrict us to classes are.

the last line and the core of the question was this:  please explain to me what you actually GAIN from classes, because i can only see what you LOSE by having them.

i'll clarify if you like:

i'm looking for an objective answer not a subjective one (if you say "because i want it that way and feel the need to control how others play" i can respect that but if you say "because it is better" then i expect you to back up that statement)

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@Trokey66 wrote:

Clones of specialists - Bad

Clones of classes - Good

Makes sense......

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Seriously? Coming from you who's apparently been around for as long as I have, it's very obvious. The models in older games were (mostly) faceless. They had nothing tied to them. No backstory, no quips, no identifier other than what their role is. Not only that, but they were different depending on what faction you played. Stop trying to BS us here, you know exactly why people don't want clones of Marvel/Disney characters, especially when they are EXACTLY the same on both teams other than a damn glowstick. 

Ragnarok and I have discussed this internally a few times and while I think there are some merits to a general "hero" system, we (and I assume many others) will agree 2042's version just isn't Battlefield.


I absolutely love being a one man army but you just have to play a single match to understand the game requires class structure - it craves it. needs it. You can still go off on your own but more often than not you'll find yourself playing the 'role'. Who knows what 2042 would be like without the voice lines and a tad more balance

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@Psubond wrote:
@Man_iLoveFishingi've looked through it and i can't find an argument other than "i don't like it". 

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I think you're being a little disingenuous here.  I respect your opinion but I have to side with the others.  Points have been made far beyond "I don't like it". Hell, I've even made some points as to why I prefer classes over the current Specialists / hero characters in BF in that latest thread which I think were glossed over but here it goes. 

Here are just a couple of my own reasons I don't like the Specialist / Hero Character model in BF2042 and would prefer a return to the classic classes.  I’m not asking anyone to agree or like my ideas over their own but this is how I see it.   ....sorry if I ramble.:

We can't really discuss "Specialists" without including the “Hero Character” concept I'm afraid.  This is the current direction EA / DICE have decided to go because even before launch and acknowledging that this is obviously not a popular design choice, they said they were determined to see it through.  ….that this was the future in the franchise.  Maybe the ensuing failure of the game changed their minds but I guess we’ll have to see.

I find hero characters limiting in that you have to choose between these cartoony avatars in the game.  It cheapens the experience IMO.  I can actually identify more with nameless and essentially faceless soldiers who look like soldiers than I can with the characters represented in the game now. 

….but one of the biggest issues for me with Specialists is that with this new structure in the squads comes a focus on perks and/or gadgets.  I’m not oblivious to the fact that gadgets have existed (of course) in the franchise but now they are more of a focus as a differentiator between these Hero Characters.  So instead of having just 4 classes or so with a limited number fo these gadgets, we will now have several more spread between all of the new Specialists that will be introduced to the game later down the road.  ….and that to me is bad news especially as new seasons introduce Specialists with even more whacky gadgets and/or special abilities. 

It reminds me of Ubisoft’s direction they took with Ghost War.  I think at last count there were 25+ specialists classes with all sorts of sci-fi abilities.  …..and tons of drones.  It got so bad people were calling it “drone wars”.  The gameplay was really about evasion to keep from being targeted, gassed, mortared, etc.   

This the heart of my negative reaction to Hero characters as I can see the gameplay being more about the Specialists and their tech than the guns and unit tactics which I value above that.

Having said that, I don’t see them getting rid of specialists as it would be depriving those who like the original concept and are expecting more as promised. 

What would I have preferred in this latest iteration of BF?  I’m not saying classes should not have evolved, quite the opposite.  ....but I would much rather have had them go in a different direction.  I was hoping EA / DICE would have taken a cue from CoD:MW2019’s success with a focus on weapons vs. perks/special abilities.  In MW they made the weapons the star of the show.  I would have loved to see a BF with a proper, in-depth weaponsmith where players could create their own variants of various platforms.  ....but most of all, far more of a selection than they provided.

As for the classes, open up the weapon selection with just a couple specialist guns being available to each.  ….but at least each class wouldn’t be tied to a class of weapon (e.g. SMG, LMG, sniper, etc.) or a limited selection.  Most weapons should be shared across all and everyone can modify their weapons in the gunsmith as they see fit.

Now, here’s the big change I wish EA / DICE would have made and that’s character customization.  IMO, these Hero characters are far too limiting.  A character creator would allow players to change the typical attributes of their avatar like skin color, hair, gender, eyes, scars, etc., etc.  They could create characters they personally identify with rather than being forced to choose from what we have now.  What gets me is that for a company that supposedly is trying to promote diversity and inclusion, this move should have been a no-brainer.  Let the players decide how they want to be represented in the game. ….the color of their skin, their gender, their hair style, tattoos, age, etc.  What better way to celebrate diversity than this?  ….be who you want to be, not who we or others tell you to be. 

Anyhow, I could go on but I think I probably already lost most before making it this far.  If the Specialists are changed to make them more palatable to the many that don’t like them for one reason or another, that would be a good step in the right direction IMO but I just don’t see this ending well for me if they stay because of the reasons above.  I hope I’m wrong.

So if they dumped the specialist and brought back classes but kept the way you can choose any weapon/gadget would that make everyone happy?