That is the point right there. What is considered frustrating versus not working. When I play it currently will randomly lock up my computer anywhere from 5 mins to 7 hours repeatedly would you say that is frustrating or non compliant... those are the types of things that need to be considered in order to release a game properly.
@rothe123 wrote:That is the point right there. What is considered frustrating versus not working. When I play it currently will randomly lock up my computer anywhere from 5 mins to 7 hours repeatedly would you say that is frustrating or non compliant... those are the types of things that need to be considered in order to release a game properly.
well i think the game works well for most people. I think that would be pretty damaging to your case about them not "releasing a game properly".
Well, that is it then isn't it just how many people are experiencing that. That is what would determine "frustrated" vs "non-compliant".
Considering I have roughly a 5K plus rig and a 69.99 dollar product is causing it to freeze up potentially causing damage to my hardware I do have a concern.
@rothe123 wrote:Considering I have roughly a 5K plus rig and a 69.99 dollar product is causing it to freeze up potentially causing damage to my hardware I do have a concern.
How would it damage your computer? Magic?
@rothe123 wrote:Considering I have roughly a 5K plus rig and a 69.99 dollar product is causing it to freeze up potentially causing damage to my hardware I do have a concern.
The only physically damaging thing about the game is situational, like if you have an SSD with your paging file on it.
The game is otherwise incapable of permanently affecting your hardware.
@rothe123 wrote:Considering I have roughly a 5K plus rig and a 69.99 dollar product is causing it to freeze up potentially causing damage to my hardware I do have a concern.
The only physically damaging thing about the game is situational, like if you have an SSD with your paging file on it.
The game is otherwise incapable of permanently affecting your hardware.
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I'd think wearing out your CPU with excessive temperature and usage would affect your hardware.
@Tinolyn wrote:
@rothe123 wrote:Considering I have roughly a 5K plus rig and a 69.99 dollar product is causing it to freeze up potentially causing damage to my hardware I do have a concern.
The only physically damaging thing about the game is situational, like if you have an SSD with your paging file on it.
The game is otherwise incapable of permanently affecting your hardware.
----
I'd think wearing out your CPU with excessive temperature and usage would affect your hardware.
No,
Your CPU is not going to "wear out". A user should be prepared to fully load their CPU. As gamers, the onus is on us to find software that pushes the CPU to the limit. If you have a build that can't sustain a Prime95 stress test, go buy a PS4 and game on that, you have absolutely no business whining about software causing CPU temps if you can't make a build or buy a system that handles full load.
Normally I'm the first guy in line to chastise EA for something, or Bioware for shoddy software engineering. This is something that I just can't side against them on. Does it absolutely suck that their game causes full CPU load for the rendering they have? Yes, absolutely. 100% CPU is unjustifiable in this case, the visuals and physics we should get for full CPU utilization should be far better than what we get. Does this cause an issue with the CPU? No, full load should be expected at some point as games get more advanced. If you have a Core 2 Duo and you load up Skyrim, expect full CPU load. When we load up Shadows of Mordor, expect heavy CPU use with everything turned up.
If you're on an AMD card and you play Arkham Origins on Ultra, that PhysX is running in software on the CPU, loading it completely. Does it look and run fantastic? Yes, yes it looks quite marvelous I love the interactive fog. During that game, however, you should expect a fully loaded CPU. If your CPU temps cause damage that is your own fault. If you bought a prebuilt system (like CyberPowerPC, OriginPC, or Alienware) then they built it wrong and you should open a support ticket with them. If you built the system yourself and your CPU is overheating at full load, then you just don't know how to build a gaming PC.
Bottom line, no software should ever cause a problem with CPU temps. It doesn't have the ability to make things run hotter than it's able to run. What's happening is that the game is exposing poor builds. Go run Prime95, load your CPU to 100%, and leave it for a few hours. If your CPU is running too hot that tells you its time to get a better CPU cooler, check case ventilation, or perhaps clean your CPU cooler of dust and debris.
The same goes for the GPU. Run an app like eVGA's OC scanner. Granted it says its an OC scanner but what it does is it loads the GPU to full load so that you can check for artifacts or rendering errors to check the stability of your system, it doesn't perform a GPU overclock (that's handled in PrecisionX or AMD Overdrive). Run it for a couple hours and if your GPU is over temp and causing stability issues, there's a problem with the configuration NOT the software.
Lose the myth of your electronics "wearing out" because of heat produced by software. Heat is your own problem, not the software dev.
@Tinolyn wrote:
@rothe123 wrote:Considering I have roughly a 5K plus rig and a 69.99 dollar product is causing it to freeze up potentially causing damage to my hardware I do have a concern.
The only physically damaging thing about the game is situational, like if you have an SSD with your paging file on it.
The game is otherwise incapable of permanently affecting your hardware.
----
I'd think wearing out your CPU with excessive temperature and usage would affect your hardware.
No,
Your CPU is not going to "wear out". A user should be prepared to fully load their CPU. As gamers, the onus is on us to find software that pushes the CPU to the limit. If you have a build that can't sustain a Prime95 stress test, go buy a PS4 and game on that, you have absolutely no business whining about software causing CPU temps if you can't make a build or buy a system that handles full load.
Normally I'm the first guy in line to chastise EA for something, or Bioware for shoddy software engineering. This is something that I just can't side against them on. Does it absolutely suck that their game causes full CPU load for the rendering they have? Yes, absolutely. 100% CPU is unjustifiable in this case, the visuals and physics we should get for full CPU utilization should be far better than what we get. Does this cause an issue with the CPU? No, full load should be expected at some point as games get more advanced. If you have a Core 2 Duo and you load up Skyrim, expect full CPU load. When we load up Shadows of Mordor, expect heavy CPU use with everything turned up.
If you're on an AMD card and you play Arkham Origins on Ultra, that PhysX is running in software on the CPU, loading it completely. Does it look and run fantastic? Yes, yes it looks quite marvelous I love the interactive fog. During that game, however, you should expect a fully loaded CPU. If your CPU temps cause damage that is your own fault. If you bought a prebuilt system (like CyberPowerPC, OriginPC, or Alienware) then they built it wrong and you should open a support ticket with them. If you built the system yourself and your CPU is overheating at full load, then you just don't know how to build a gaming PC.
Bottom line, no software should ever cause a problem with CPU temps. It doesn't have the ability to make things run hotter than it's able to run. What's happening is that the game is exposing poor builds. Go run Prime95, load your CPU to 100%, and leave it for a few hours. If your CPU is running too hot that tells you its time to get a better CPU cooler, check case ventilation, or perhaps clean your CPU cooler of dust and debris.
The same goes for the GPU. Run an app like eVGA's OC scanner. Granted it says its an OC scanner but what it does is it loads the GPU to full load so that you can check for artifacts or rendering errors to check the stability of your system, it doesn't perform a GPU overclock (that's handled in PrecisionX or AMD Overdrive). Run it for a couple hours and if your GPU is over temp and causing stability issues, there's a problem with the configuration NOT the software.
Lose the myth of your electronics "wearing out" because of heat produced by software. Heat is your own problem, not the software dev.
---
I disagree with some points. I expect a new game will put pressure on systems and hardware. CPU usage, I would think, should not exceed 75 percent, however. Seeing spikes of 100 percent causing other peoples' systems to shut off – despite meeting the minimum (or even recommended!) specs makes me think the problem is not on the user, but the game itself.
That comment is not reflective of my own hardware. My CPU is middling, not minimum. Same with my video card. I am not experiencing crashes that shut off the system. I do experience stutter (though several of the fixes presented have made my game playable).
If as has been suggested that Bioware is looking into excessive CPU usage and resource allocation, great. My CPU runs this game at 50 percent usage most of the time, with spikes to 75-100 percent. I do not think that is how it should work, especially since there were reports of the game working flawlessly before Patch 2 was released.
I am not one of those people who likes to push my system to the limit. I prefer performance over mind-boggling appearance. So yes, I want this game to run on my system smoothly, without hitching, crashing or freezes. I expect, as with any new game, some adjustments need to be made to achieve this result. As part of that, I expect new drivers (or older ones, or whatever) for video, audio, etc., will be needed. I do not, however, think that should involve having to underclock a system that meets or exceeds requirements to play for a semblance of smoothness.
For reference, my system:
Win 7 x64 Pro
@AMD Phenom II x4 955 Black Edition @3.2 GHz
8 GB Ram
Geforce GTX 460 - 1 GB
Standard hard drive (not SSD)
@Tinolyn wrote:For reference, my system:
Win 7 x64 Pro
@AMD Phenom II x4 955 Black Edition @3.2 GHz
8 GB Ram
Geforce GTX 460 - 1 GB
Standard hard drive (not SSD)
The notion that a CPU could be damaged by reaching 100% load is farcical. If it were the case then the CPU would have to be sold at a different "100%" that's lower than the "100%" it sold for. With adequate cooling the "100%" is often higher than what it sells for, hence the overclocking community pushing the envelope to actual "100%". If you take a CPU, keep it at factory clock speeds, put a good cooler on it to handle the TDP requirements, constant non-stop 100% will do absolutely nothing to "wear out" the CPU. I would feel comfortable taking a low end, high end, and mid-range CPU and leaving them all loaded 100% 24/7 365/year non-stop. This isn't really opinion either.
Does the game suffer sub-optimal coding that results in CPU mis-utilization in a non-console environment? Absolutely. Does it need updated to deal with the unjustifiable CPU spikes? Yeah, absolutely. Is it excusable for them to have released the game with high CPU spikes for no good reason? No, no way it isn't. Will the game damage your CPU by having high utilization and spikes? No, the game will absolutely not harm your CPU. If your CPU suffers harm from heat overload from running this game that is absolutely not Bioware's fault at all in any way shape or form. It is the end user's responsibility to make sure their hardware has adequate thermal performance. The liability is not on Bioware in this case. Where we chart new territory is in things like SSD's where the software does have the ability to ruin the component. Excessive pagefile swapping to the point it fatigues the SSD's flash falls into the reasonable expectations for the behavior of a software product. In Bioware's case they could end up in trouble as no other program exists out there behaving like this in the wild with the exception of Malware designed to attack SSD's.
I have not seen a single application or program behave in this manner. People with 8 or 16GB of RAM (which borders on the entire storage requirement for the game itself) are STILL seeing pagefile swapping for absolutely no freakin reason at all. It's as if the game sees vailable virtual memory and just attacks it.
This is the stuff class action lawsuits are born from when more than a few people come forward and say "Bioware trashed my SSD with their game because I showed 100GB of read/writes per day" and that's a stretch in of itself. Most people just don't have sessions that long and it's tough to hold that up in a court, even though it's justifiable.
As for CPU, memory, GPU damage? Hogwash. It's farcical to even attempt to rationally suggest that. What it's doing is exposing poor builds. Simple as that.
That being said, your CPU is pretty decent. I would say 50% utilization is unreasonable. The game just isn't doing that much on the CPU to warrant anymore. On my Core i7 4790 every other game peaks at around 25% with some spikes here and there. The consequence of the PS4/Xbone is that developers have an anemic weak CPU as their primary SKU so there's just no headroom to do very much advanced animation, physics, and AI to the level a low end PC can do. Seeing DA:I with these CPU spikes makes Bioware look pathetic.
