Re: David Greco's Handling, Driving and Setup Q&A (?)

@DavidG53 

@DavidG53 I am really sorry about this. My brain has issues. Whenever I see or read something I find curious or interesting: My brain needs to know why i found it interesting and if I have nothing more to offer. It goes into overdrive digs up anything from my memory even loosely related and then goes about connecting the dots… I go days without sleep cause it won’t shut up., it loves coming up with conspiracy theories. And occasionally it does come up with some good ones. However I put no stock in conspiracy theories as they generally rely on hearsay or opinions rather than facts.

So firstly I’m asking a question that doesn’t require a answers. And if I come across as though I’m criticising you or any off the dev team. I promise I’m not, it’s because I didn’t like school and lack skill and knowledge off the English language. Despite be English. When I get stuck on here I ask my Brazilian friend mario to explain what I mean. In perfect English and alittle Churchillian flair.

So here we go

When I came across the YouTube video and posted on here. Forgive my ignorance but I just thought you was the guy who had a big brain and knew how to turn actual f1 handling physics into game code so we get to drive a true representation off a F1 car. Great job by the way. Except the little 7th gear whoopsie.

So when I saw that video I found it interesting you are alike also racing game/sim royalty. And this was the hook my brain is still on and hasn’t stopped thinking about things which has now evolved into a thought and question about how the game is built. And until I post it i won’t get any pease.

So you being racing sim god expert is weirdly the issue. Because you design and test the model and once you find it works good as you hoped. Your skills as a sim racer are far far greater than average joes like me.
I may put in thousands off hours in my team. But age hasn’t been kind and I’m nowhere near as good as i was 20 years ago. And best way I can think off to describe what I mean is. the reason the very best football players fail when they go into management is because they can’t understand why their teams can’t do what they ask. And the simple reason is the players are nowhere near their skill set:

So I also know BarryBl love him races the ai 100+. And same as pjtierney. So you three are 100% the Codemasters staff I know: so if all the dev team are this good. How do you ensure how the average payer on a pad with a few spare how’s to play can play the game can jump on track and have some awesome race time… careful don’t take the bait. Your probably thinking we’ll you can set the ai to 100 different levels plus you lots off different assists: Yes the game does: but considering majority off those who bought the game are casual average at best and play using a pad probably have use at least half the available Assists: just to do something as simple as accelerating from a standing start without spinning? YouTube is full off videos featuring multiplayer race starts where maybe one or two manage to make it past the first corner. The rest and still spinning and shunting: But at the same time you do need godlike skills to effectively drive a F1 car in “real life” But this is a game with a age rating off 3 years and up.

I’m not suggesting dumbing down the handling. Otherwise we will all be e-sport pro gods like yourself. So I get there still has to be a skill gap:

Which brings me two those who got early access. As I expect you relied on their feedback due to not being able to do a proper beta(I know not devs choice)

However those YouTubers who got early access are two completely separate types off players but also the two groups who’s feedback is worthless.. firstly marcel and jarno elite e-sports pros like yourself and like you would quickly understand and adapt to the new physics and from their videos they clearly did. So they would only be able to report what you already think. It’s all going good ok how about the other group. Those YouTubers who’s income comes from posting videos off them paying my team etc. and I watched all off them and the were praising the game but we’re more concerned with sending out big shouts out to ea and Codemasters. What feedback will you get from them? Nothing but worship cause they won’t risk upsetting the hand that feeds. None off them despite posting videos daily ever mentioned any off the games issues: wasn’t until people who payed for the game started ranting and raging started gaining traction. Then within 2-3 days they had all posted videos about the games bugs. Hmm. But worse was everyone knew a patch was incoming. But didn’t stop them claiming credit for forcing Codemasters to fix the game:

So basically they told you what you wanted to here or what you already thought.

What’s sad is on this forum and proper Codemasters forums. There are a bunch off average gamers that are only ranting and raving because they love the f1 games and in my case Codemasters (believe it or not I do) and know Codemasters is better than this and will do as much as they can to help make the game better. If a dev posted asking for feedback on a specific issue I’m willing to bet with a day there would be tons off posts with constructive feedback. Average skilled long time f1 gamers instantly notice issues: cause we know the games how they are expected to work and simply because elite sim racers skill set can easily live with bonkers balancing and aggressiveness but us average games don’t.

Last bit. So if the games overall physics can’t be changed. There needs to be better help and assists for gamers. Better control pad settings. If I press my accelerator trigger I’m at maximum revs before trigger is pressed halfway. So almost Impossible to feather with so little travel: steering travel needs to be better. Any minute error when steering will spin the car.

Adjustable final drive for auto gears. Maybe adjustable engine breaking.

And more tc levels considering GT7 You get 5 tc settings and apply them to cars not fast enough to ever break traction

Apex markers to help newbies. Better setup information for each track. Like a actual race engineer knowledge off tracks and conditions.

Maybe more abs options.

Moral off the story unless you get feedback from the actual community. Like you have davidg legend sir we’ll don’t have to go to the lengths you have. Their are a few members on here Are extremely happy you continue to engage with us.

The ea mod’s know which members any devs willing to follow your lead should listen to or ignore.

David I hate ea because off what it’s come. I have had Codemasters on a pedi stall ever since toco. I’d like to keep them there.

If you made it this far sorry my brain made me post this very long boring post

@DavidG53 Will the auto gears fix also reduce the difference between the player and AI out of slow speed corners such as Austria turn 3?

It is so hard to match them going out of the corner with ERS on in Grand Prix mode using the ferrari

@DavidG53 I have a few questions about ride height.

Firstly, the reason thinking of it: Yesterday I had issues with Abu-Dhabi Turn 3 in Career. In Time Trial I could mount the curb on the inside flatout without issue with a ride height of 4-5. In Carrer (and GP) it was absolutely not possible. As soon as I touch the curb with the front wheel I was losing all grip and spun. Taking a line without touching the curb was fine, so I decided to lower the front ride height a click to at least profit of a little bit more downforce, but keeping the rear ride height to increase rake and give a little bit rotation is the slow corners and keeping stability in the mid and high speed corners.

So first of all very basic data. I remember you telling that at lowest ride height the car is producing around 2000kg of downforce. How much is lost for each click higher?

Then, Players are increasing front ride height, partly to absurd highs, to be able to take higher curbs. Sometimes the result is negative rake (higher front than rear). In my knowledge about rake in racing, negative rake is absolutely nonsense. It shouldn't work, but it does. Is it different because of the ground effect? If yes, how is the ground effect working with negative rake then?

@Meza994Thinking about it I can imagine the files could be a bit misleading. How are those values registered in the files? Multiple values across speed or one maximum value?
Downforce increases over speed, and if stalling is simulated the lower ride heights could be come of worse only because they are leading to an aero stall at a specific speed. If it's like that, it could still be viable running lower ride heights if the corners aren't fast enough anyways

I don't know this is the right topic here. I don't want to create a new thread. sorry.

At the Hungarian GP, Max changed the engine mode to 12 at pit lane.

In reality, it seems that there are several engine modes. On the other hand, games only have lean and standard. Any plans to have multiple engine modes?
Additionally, does the AI have a driving style for each driver? For example, preference for overtake inside.

Or are they all in the same mechanism with different numbers?

I have read speculation in these boards about the game not providing any FFB effects of your rear, to know better when your grip limit, to be able react and catch if you start to lose it. It's been often in the context of maybe specific brands, like Logitech wheels (not having any vibrations for rears when playing with controller is another common complaint). 

I'm currently using mid level Thrustmaster base (TX) and wheel (SF1000), and I'n not sure how much I rear I feel, if any. If I turn all the effects down to 0, and just leave the overal FFB, I think feel grip better, as if those faint signals are not drowned under those other effects. But it's faint and not sure is that supposed to be the feeling of grip or something else (I'm not that experienced in racing games yet). I'm driving without assists btw. 

There have been occasions where I have suddenly lost rear and spin out of the blue in Turn 12 on Bahrain for example, and when it happened, I remember clearly thinking that I didn't get any indication that I'm close to losing it there, at least not from wheel (it definitely wasn't a curb either). It happened so fast, that it would have been super hard to react and catch it on just visual info . This was before I turned down those other effects though. 

@DavidG53 could you tell, should I expect of have such signals out of my wheel or not? Does the game actually push that info and should it be clear enough (like feeling of understeer is now super clear, which is good).  

I'm thinking about upgrading to Fanatec or Simcube or something like that in future, and I'm wondering what to expect what comes to this game in particular. Games like AC and ACC are able to give me plenty of info thru my current wheel though, so it's not like these T300/TX bases are the limiting factor here.

ps. this might be a really "newbie" thing, but it's really hard for me to clearly know when I'm having wheelspin or locking up my tires under braking outside experience that based on trial or error. I'm definitely not nothing any clear FFB effects from those (or even sound effects). Should there be? 

btw. we discussed this shortly earlier in this thread, but I'm pretty convinced that the default FFB levels on Xbox for my wheelbase is comparable with having the 100% overall forces + boost ON in the Thrustmaster control panel on PC. So to get the same FFB on your xbox that I would get having the defaults in both game (75%) and thrustmaster drivers, I would need to lover the overall FFB in the game to 25% on XBox! (which is a bit too weak IMO). No wonder people are getting lose of FFB from overheating often...

@BadMayh3mI'm on PC / Steam.

Xbox / PC version of the G920 is the same model. 

@Ileleee I’m running a Fanatec DD Pro on PS5. I do think there are some subtle FFB signals from the rears - I can feel it starting to loosen (and catch it sometimes) in certain situations. I can feel it change with different downforce settings - the wheel force briefly lightens slightly, not as dramatic as understeer. But I think these effects are only when turning or under accel if the car shimmies - straight line wheelspin would not be a wheel force l/r, so some vibration effect would need tobe layered on and I don’t feel that.

Not sure if a belt/gear drive wheel is quick enough to feel this, try some differences in rear downforce and accelerating in low & medium speed curves maybe. My overall force is fairly light so a heavy wheel might also mask it more. i moved up from a fanatec CSW V2 - good belt drvie wheel, but I can feel a big difference in detail.

Hi,

several questions about tyres below:

1) Does tyre core temps affect tyre wear within optimal working range (85-100C)?

2) Is C3 compound always the same? For example, hards in Canada are C3 and softs in Silverstone are C3, are they practicall the same tyre?

3) Does surface temps increase quicker with harder compounds than they do with softer compounds, if core temps are in optimal range? 

Thanks again!

@taattorNo all good, i understand what you mean (i think) but from what i ever saw in the game data there is no difference in surface heating between all compounds in relation to core temp, so 100° core temp on C5s should cause the same increase in surface temps as on C1s but i didnt test this properly so dont take it as 100% save

@Meza994Thanks. Gonna test & report. Edit: what is interesting though is that while 85C core temps theoretically give 100% grip (according to great data provided by @ActuallyImJulie) the surface temps are not fully heat up and one might notice a small lack of grip until 86-87C on some low-traction corners or so. 

@Meza994I mean, there’s a slight delay in surface temps increasing to 85C on low core temps, the same way surface temps tend to peak on high core temps.

Good morning, guys with patch 1.09 doesn't change anything about physical setup is like that?

@DavidG53Thoughts on this? https://answers.ea.com/t5/Bug-Reports/HUGE-BUG-LESS-FPS-EASIER-CORNERING/td-p/11750038

Handling physics tied to your FPS seems absurd. The lower your FPS the less your car bounces over kerbs.

There's an example video in the thread linked but it's easily reproducible by limiting your FPS.

Playing at high FPS is a disadvantage.