Re: F1 22 Grip Levels and Traction
This is Lando’s pedal cam through Hangar, Stowe and Vale I guess. You can clearly see how he gently applies the throttle. Telemetry graphs of pedals can be deceptive on tv.
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@SertacKaratepe_Telemetry data beats what is fairly subjective in what you see there, telemetry doesnt lie..
There are gonna be changes an no further changes, confirmed by the head of handling so nothing further to discuss, it will change for sure but in a way he deems right and nothing further will happen.https://twitter.com/mclarenf1/status/1542878401140228097?s=21&t=ptBz_rluetNhwi1dDdW5SQ
And this is with onboard. These footages should be the end of discussion
- @Meza994 I’m not talking about telemetry data. I’m talking about brake and throttle graphs on tv
- @SertacKaratepe_ Yeah, with (spicily cool, if that's even a thing) footage of actual footwork, I don't think that leaves much up to debate.
There's real telemetry and there's dumbed down/approximations of pedal work that we see on those FOM's onboard videos. Real telemetry is rarely shared.
The only sort of misleading aspect of pedal shaft footage is that pedal position these days is far from equating directly to torque delivery. There's a reason we're seeing the gas pedal being referred to throttle request or throttle demand pedal. But this is moot, irrelevant, as the discussion here is all about throttle inputs from the player - and in this matter this footage is excellent 👌 - @mariohomoh Except for it being FP1 and drying conditions with drivers slowly testing the tires.. His sector 3 in this specific vid is 2.8 seconds slower than what he was driving in FP2 with only 2 traction zones, not comparable throttle application at all
- @mariohomoh I agree. And for relative throttle demand - torque delivery relation, there is a setting on calibration menu in the game which is called throttle linearity. It can be tweaked in order to set a curved graph on throttle demand. Practically, very handy for heavy feet. I use it 2-3% of that.
- https://youtu.be/JUQ4A7gtO7s
This is a start practice for example. Yes, it’s made with used hard tires. For sure, with fresh mediums or softs they can be more aggressive on throttle but, not that much than this. - @SertacKaratepe_ I never said they can be aggressive or anything, i think they got the generell direction of progressive throttle application right and with the torque change coming many people will likely stop complaining anyway.
Problem is with your example that the C1 tyre was reported in Spain and Bahrain to be horrendous, its the worst tyre for traction they have this year so obviously the throttle application is still far slower than compared to C5 tires (of course depending on track grip level).. Anyway as i said before, the progressive application in contrast to stomping the throttle is absolutely the right way! - @Meza994 And how does that relate to your point about F1 TV telemetry and and "fairly subjective" pedal shaft footage?
Dropping that as you've already done, It is an example of real life throttle application. Most likely very different from what he applied in FP2, but both are also significantly different from what we find in the game so I fail to see your point here. Not saying you're wrong, just that I can't see the relevance to the discussion.
The main takeaways are that a) throttle control is a thing, as people often ignore and b) grip in the game is fine already and further patches will help with traction even more.
Also there's rain in the game, on-camber and off-camber corners, slow corners, hard tyres, cold tyres, worn tyres... The video is great, honestly. And everyone should take it into consideration, taking it slow and work your way from that instead of trying to hit fast laps straight out of the box. - @mariohomoh The fairly subjective pedal footage is subjective because you are measuring how much throttle exactly gets applied by eye, eye measurment is very subjective. The progression is observable yes but the exact amount of throttle is pure guess work with these.
When its so different to the game then the game is doing something wrong, pointing out problems of a methodology is relevant to any discussion.
And i never said that real life drivers dont control the throttle nor did i say in this thread that they need to up the grip in this game😂 I dont know where the relevance of your reply to me is, i never disagreed with anything of your last paragraph only pointed out how little this short clip actually tells us - things that F1 was like since the ban of Traction control, progressive throttle application and throttle control. We dont even disagree on this basis😂 - @Meza994 https://youtu.be/R7YRKC2pLwA
And here with soft tires on push lap… the game currently favors this exactly. And I see no unrealism on that. Tbh I don't think it's a good idea to base the amount of throttle on eye measurement in a pedal cam because not only can the camera angle change how it looks, but it can be subjective from person to person depending on what and how they see it
- @LittleAmigoBrit I think it’s pretty clear and objective. You see full throttle, zero throttle and, the distance. What more do you need to see? Btw, you can calibrate gas pedal in calibration settings with throttle linearity option.
- @LittleAmigoBrit For how much I would love to get David Greco sitting behind me, cradling my hands in his and gentling directing my fingers towards proper throttle control (🤭) I don't think we can honestly go any better than pedal cam and proper telemetry as references for throttle application.
Called it on my first comment, even if we had overlays pointing out the exact pedal travel or whatever even so it wouldn't be directly applicable. The gas pedal is not even called it anymore, it's a throttle request pedal. The driver presses on it and the ECU will match that input with the current throttle map and ICE map.
Linear, aggressive, and progressive throttle maps, they're all different. Plus, every driver has their own preferences.
All that said, I think these videos are great and even those that cannot properly assess pedal movement in them can still take this home: be gentle on the throttle.
Maybe actually seeing it like this could spark the insight players need for better pedal modulation.
Now the brake pedal work, that's useless. These work way more like a load cell pedal you can get for your simracing gear, it's nothing at all like a position-based pedal. @mariohomoh Has probably covered everything that needs to be said. This will be my last post on the subject after playing around with TC and settings and setups.
Those off you that drive with no assists and are amazing stop feeling threatened: No one who uses assists cares about being as fast as you. Your all missing the point: No one cares about the games handling physics as there is nothing wrong with them.
People who use a pad and need to the help off assists. Care about spending up to £80 on a game they casually play and want to have some fun. And not have to put hours and hours getting good before they can enjoy the experience:
And It’s all about how much wheel slip TC gives or doesn’t . There is very little difference between no TC medium TC. And this is frustrating for people because any slight misjudgment instantly spins. With no chance the catch the car. So unless you understand how and have time to go into FFB and calibration settings. It’s game braking.
Whereas with full TC there is zero wheel slip and I’ve tested this by doing a few laps at Jeddah by using default lowest downforce set up. Where I also put pressures to maximum and stiffened the rear to equal the front mechanical grip settings: and not once was there any wheel slip. But what there was. Was TC massively restricting engine power to the rear wheels. It’s like accelerating a car with the mother off all turbos from a standing starting in 6th gear. Nothing nothing nothing nothing. Little, little more Wooooo hooo: it’s boring soul destroying boring.
so the easiest solution and as I’ve said nothing to do with being as quick as you no assist gods. It about find a happy medium. Where tc assists traction without killing accelerating out off corners but also allowing enough will slip that you still spin you if you take liberties.
so 3 options decrease wheel slip on med tc. Increase wheel slip on full tc: or add another tc that fits between the 2.
As i do however believe everyone in multiplayer races should have the same assists on or off.
But that said if your all so great and awesome with no assists. Surely you want some kind off challenge to help you get even gooder/. So you should want assists to be op. So you get more chance to show how great you are at playing a game against a bunch off less than average casual online players. If your so awesome their are plenty off leagues out there for you to join set up so all assists are off
And just to add im a old man. I’m nowhere as quick as I used to be and don’t ever play online anymore. As I have nothing to prove or gain from it. So I happily play offline only where it shouldn’t matter to anyone other than me what assists I use or don’t use. what matters to me is enjoyment. Not obsessing over ai level or going a tenth a lap faster. And despite what you think the vast majority off people who play the game just for fun and also don’t care about you or obsess over how to get gooder. So rather than tell be they should just get good when they post here asking for help. Use your knowledge you have off the game and post things that may help them. If you havnt got nothing nice to say then shut up
- ScarDuck14,
I'm glad you're also on this forum.
I totally agree with you - @SertacKaratepe_ Thats exactly the same i was talking about earlier buddy 😉 yes soft tires but on a drying track before that he was going through a very wet sector 2 which cools off the tires a lot.. Best comparison would be from a dry Q3 after at least a whole day of other series running to rubber the track in as most examples from esports drivers are comparable conditions.
And i still doubt how accurate it is when you only gauge the throttle amount by eye but it doesnt matter, we know whats gonna happen and by my understanding it shouldnt be a game changing difference, skill should still matter to master throttle application as it should be. @Jpk123456 Thanks: To me it’s all very stupid: The no assists brigade fail to understand this is a game and is not a hardcore racing sim. It’s a simcade by design. Even setup options don’t even show actual values. Just 1-10 not to mention all the other adjustable settings it doesn’t include.
It the game was a hardcore multiplayer sim only then I’d still expect only helpful replies from self proclaimed sim gods to posts asking for help and advice. I’m awesome I know I’m awesome and I tell everyone I’m awesome: I don’t need to tell people why just that I am and I certainly would never belittle anyone by telling why they are not as awesome as me👍
And I’ve been playing with medium TC and the no assists gods may soon wish med TC did have less slip: Because as it currently is along with the torque update. They will find medium TC users dominating. Simply because med TC may feel useless to the average casual pad user. But it won’t be long until the fast TTers who have no issue using assists. Will start to dial in the their setups and they will quickly discover med TC gives better albeit small traction gains but without significant loss off power. It’s just ready to become this games meta
- @ScarDuck14 I’m not hypocritical you won’t see me fooling around with any assist users 😁
@Meza994 I’m sure that pedal cam will send some footages until the end of the weekend. We will see both in q3 and race. Then we can talk further.
@SertacKaratepe_ If I was still young enough to keep up with the kids. After the carnage I’ve seen on just about every YouTube vid featuring a multiplayer race.. I wouldn’t care if everyone had op assists enabled except me, least it improve my chances off not just getting wiped out but actually making it through the first corner
