Re: Horrible state of F1 22

@ScarDuck14 

So to my point, now it’s even more unlikely for people to do the whole suing thing because they have to be American. 

@Radoko34No it’s the mindset of American companies to protect themselves from being sued. Is not giving any reason for someone to try.   

But you’re still missing the point they have no obligation to talk to us.  They know what the community wants.  Why waste time and effort engaging with us when they don’t have to.   Take David’s Q&A for instance.  David was very forthcoming in his engagement. And still people posted abusive posts.  

@ScarDuck14 

Thanks for clarifying. 

And you’re right. But whilst they don’t have any obligation to engage with us, it’s quite disappointing all the same. 
A games company that cares about their audience and market is always going to have a good reputation, and EA doesn’t have that unfortunately. 

Just look at the community’s reaction when EA took over F1 2021. The game has only declined since then. Codemasters hit a crescendo with F1 2020, and since then the game has been in a downwards spiral. The timing is non-coincidental. 

@Radoko34Yes but EA will continue to operate the way they do because they make billions upon billions. They will only change when they stop making so much money. People like me and you are the problem because we continue to buy their games. But even so they have no obligation to chat to us. They do however need to improve QA and communication when it comes to game issues and bug reporting etc etc. Which they have a genuine desire to do.

Ok I’ll give you another car example as it’s something I know about. When a car company is developing a new car or replacement off an earlier model. They go through great lengths to keep everything a secret until they officially launch it. So much so when they road test the car they camouflage the car so even if it’s seen no one can make out what it is. No one moans that they should communicate with there customer base

would you look at that. Accept a solution has been disabled. Bet some won’t like that 😃

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@ScarDuck14 wrote:

@Radoko34Yes but EA will continue to operate the way they do because they make billions upon billions. They will only change when they stop making so much money. People like me and you are the problem because we continue to buy their games. But even so they have no obligation to chat to us. They do however need to improve QA and communication when it comes to game issues and bug reporting etc etc. Which they have a genuine desire to do.

Ok I’ll give you another car example as it’s something I know about. When a car company is developing a new car or replacement off an earlier model. They go through great lengths to keep everything a secret until they officially launch it. So much so when they road test the car they camouflage the car so even if it’s seen no one can make out what it is. No one moans that they should communicate with there customer base

would you look at that. Accept a solution has been disabled. Bet some won’t like that 😃

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You’re right. Although I haven’t yet seen any action for them to improve their severely lacking communication with game issues and game ideas, etc.  I suppose we’ll have to see. 

👍 Great analogy. 

‘would you look at that. Accept a solution has been disabled. Bet some won’t like that 😃’
🤣 One word: Generosity

CodeMasters’ F1 game license runs until 2025 (under EA).

Is there any potential that due to the unpopularity of the F1 game, Liberty Media might sell the rights to make the licensed F1 game to another games company to rid F1 of it’s current bad reputation of EA’s game?

@ScarDuck14 You don’t think there’s any chance of another big game company swooping in and buying out the license for the F1 game, just like how EA swooped in and bought Codies? 

Plus, having it’s official game have such a bad reputation can’t be making the FOM particularly delighted. It doesn’t reflect that well on the sport, having it’s licensed game in tatters. 
It’s sort of like if DTS got bought out by another company (in a wild imagination), and it got made into something it’s community didn’t like. The fan base to F1 coming from DTS (and in this case, the F1 game) would probably be very displeased with the series/game, making them lose the interest they got from DTS/F1 game for Formula 1. 

I hope this makes sense. 😇

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@Radoko34 wrote:

CodeMasters’ F1 game license runs until 2025 (under EA).

Is there any potential that due to the unpopularity of the F1 game, Liberty Media might sell the rights to make the licensed F1 game to another games company to rid F1 of it’s current bad reputation of EA’s game?

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Unpopularity of the game from a few online comments will not trump the money received from sales and the generally positive reviews from critics at the start of the games cycle.

As @ScarDuck14 mentioned, gamers should really vote with their wallets. That's what big game companies really care about with the quality of the game a by product of them trying to achieve more sales. If they truly cared, we wouldn't have yearly cycle games and games would have the time they need be developed and bug fixes before release. A cynical view maybe.

@TotosHeadphones 

You’re right. 
Do you see any way of this being stopped/overcome, other than the impossible solution of getting everyone to not buy the game?

Our discussion is totally to @dronord551993‘s OP point. F1 22 is in a horrible state. It’s true. And ever since EA has come in, Codemasters’ constant effort to improve the game has been stripped right back, so that they just release the bare minimum, enough to call it a ‘new’ game. Although many people wouldn’t call it that. 

For sure, some people will stop buying the F1 game, but it won’t be enough to cause EA problems. 
Besides, the positive critic reviews they get when the game is released are just reviews that are fuelled by the new-game hype. Of course every new year’s game is going to be ‘The best so far’, but to be honest, a lot of that is just down to recency bias and that sort of kettle of fish. 🐟 

Additionally, nobody is likely to outbid EA.

When it comes to reputation there's seems to be a thought that all gamers are in unison with their hate of EA. The vocal online microcosm seems to believe that their views speak about every single gamer out there. I think they're largely ignoring the fact that many gamers are casual or many purchases of games come from parents buying for their kids who have no idea who made the game or largely care who made it. "Everybody" hates EA but it doesn't stop FIFA being a massive money spinner when people could buy what used to be known as PES from Konami.

@Radoko34  What @TotosHeadphones  said.  

i get you want learn and  understand more. But it’s constantly going round in circles. I’ve repeatedly repeated myself.  

 Can I suggest YouTube there are some great videos from content creators out there.  Just search… why are games bad.  Don’t look for this game in specific:  But just games in general.  

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@Radoko34 wrote:

@TotosHeadphones 

You’re right. 
Do you see any way of this being stopped/overcome, other than the impossible solution of getting everyone to not buy the game?

Our discussion is totally to @dronord551993‘s OP point. F1 22 is in a horrible state. It’s true. And ever since EA has come in, Codemasters’ constant effort to improve the game has been stripped right back, so that they just release the bare minimum, enough to call it a ‘new’ game. Although many people wouldn’t call it that. 

For sure, some people will stop buying the F1 game, but it won’t be enough to cause EA problems. 
Besides, the positive critic reviews they get when the game is released are just reviews that are fuelled by the new-game hype. Of course every new year’s game is going to be ‘The best so far’, but to be honest, a lot of that is just down to recency bias and that sort of kettle of fish. 🐟 

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Honestly, I don't know. We're in a scenario where developers can continue to pump out yearly games because the demand is there. Games such as F1 and FIFA are also based around sports which really also have yearly updates in terms of players, drivers, kits, liveries, etc, so people are always wanting to have the most up to date roster etc. We're always lead to believe that newer/up to date is always better, preying on our human nature. It's why we have yearly updates of phones and the hardcores will buy a new iPhone that has one new improved feature or a faster processor that they won't even notice when they open up WhatsApp a millisecond quicker than they used to.

Really, I may to be totally wrong but I think not pre-ordering games and buying games too quickly into it's yearly cycle is important. Waiting while fixes happen and gauging the speed the fixes happen and consequently basing your purchase on those factors would hopefully make companies see their sales either improve or diminish. Then the onus is on them to provide a better product to begin with or think about changing the cycle. They'll only look deeply into critiques when they see the numbers and try to work out the reason for the discontent.

I've been trying to find the lifetime and initial sales of F1 22 and and F1 2021 , would be interesting to see.

I watched the following video last night that I suspect rather mirrors the views of a lot of regular F1 players, sadly.

Why nobody is excited for F1 23 - YouTube

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@Meza994 wrote:
@Ultrasonic_77If the big Youtubers and Esports guys would also make such videos then FOM would start to think about changing things.. But of course they wont kill of their sacred cash cow..

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This is a good point. The amount of marketing these content creators and eSport drivers save EA etc is maybe another reason why there's not much change. Collectively YT content creators and drivers would have large subscriber bases, even if they overlapped, that's a huge base that the game reaches out to. If they all criticised the game collectively, EA would take notice. Limitless has been blackballed for certain reasons so he has no filter. For all he moans repeatedly at least he tells the truth. If the other creators followed suit there'd be change. Its difficult to do because it is their livelihood but we're starting to see some of the major creators be truthful about the state of the game. A little too late though...

I'm with @TotosHeadphones here. I really don't think FOM would put pressure on EA and Codies for a better game, turn it into a love project or something to that extent. As long as it the sales and revenue are maintained at a satisfactory level.

And I wouldn't be so inclined to call their licensing deal with Codies a "sacred cash cow". This is not FIFA. Like, for real.

Though it's been reported to gross FIFA around $150M annually, we don't have exact figures. According to FIFA annual reports (here) though, their revenue from licensing rights in more, let's say, less grandiose years aka non-Wold Cup years have been around 21% up to 60% of their total revenue.

Now with the Formula One Group things are even more opaque as I could only find this from their operating results in their 2022 Annual Report (here):

Given how broader of a category "other revenue" is opposed to "licensing rights" as per the FIFA reports, yeah...

Only the increase in 2021 revenue is partially attributed to their games licensing agreements:

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Other Formula 1 revenue increased $180 million and $170 million during the years ended December 31, 2022 and 2021, respectively, as compared to the corresponding periods in the prior year. The 2022 increase was primarily due to the ability to undertake a greater scope of activities when compared to 2021 due to the reduced impact of COVID-19. The Formula One Paddock Club operated at 19 Events in 2022 compared to only 11 Events during 2021, with increased attendance at 2022 Events. In addition, freight revenue increased in 2022 as compared to 2021 due to the increased number of Events outside of Europe and the impact of freight cost inflation on billing rates. The 2021 increase was driven by hospitality revenue generated from the sale of tickets to the Formula One Paddock Club, which only operated at one Event in 2020 due to COVID-19 related restrictions, higher licensing revenue from growth in gaming royalties and new contracts and higher freight and travel income from five more Events as well as more Events outside of Europe.

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@ScarDuck14🤣
For those that didn't catch the joke, I failed to mention that the values are in millions. I didn't bother adding the the zeroes in because it is just the percentages that matter for this exercise - i.e. speculating on how much FOM relies on their licensing deal with Codies.

Answer: clearly not to the same as FIFA did.