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dancrodrigues's avatar
dancrodrigues
3 years ago

Re: How Realistic is F122? (According to an F1 Engineer)

@mariohomoh wrote:

@Wollcott did you get to drive a sim in a factory or in the team's entourage? This is off topic, but if that's the case I'd love to hear more about it and I'm most definitely not alone in that! Though there are a bunch of users who casually play the game, there's a good number of legit petrol heads here that will always perk their ears up to hear such stories 👌

I'd love to hear that too.

And guys, don't get me wrong - the discussion is great - but it sounds like you are expecting something that was never intended for this F1 game series - as far as I think of the game in those years playing it. It's like judging a fish by its abiity of climbing trees. To implement this in such level of finesse the game could never be released yearly.

And to say that TC medium players have no part in the discussion sounds arrogant to me. Firstly 'cause splits the players into categories where some are relevant and some aren't. Second because those are the guys who feel the most this misbalance in traction - though they don't necessarily know what's going on and why. So, if it's hard for us, for them it's almost impossible - to the point where they could lose interest in learning and turning assists off and ultimately dropping the game.

10 Replies

  • ScarDuck14's avatar
    ScarDuck14
    Legend
    3 years ago

    @dancrodriguesVast majority play the game using a pad. So game should be optimised for pad as well as wheel. Without those on pad. The game wouldn’t be financially viable

    afterall it’s advertised and sold as a game.  

  • Wollcott's avatar
    Wollcott
    New Ace
    3 years ago
    @dancrodrigues No , not at all do i want to put people in categories, but in this specific topic, about realism and comparing to real life it does not make sense to listen to people that play with TC as obviously there is no common ground to compare. Its nothing against someone using it. But it doesnt make sense comparing the handling/traction etc. from a traction control played game to a real life car without that assist. Same thing about ABS. the only real comparison which makes sense and brings everybody on the same level is 0 assists in game, as there as 0 assists IRL (ok power steering maybe)

    But about the first part:
    What bugs me the most is that F1 cars in actual simulators are MUCH easier to drive than the F1 game. I dont get the intention behind this. Why is it easier to dirve an F1 car on iRacing than the offical F1 game? if anything that makes people lose interest even more or compensate it by turning on assists.
    Thats why 2020 was so good. and as far as i know it was the only F1 game where developers had actual discussions and meetings with real life F1 drivers.
  • Wollcott's avatar
    Wollcott
    New Ace
    3 years ago
    @ScarDuck14 100%. there is no point in optimizing this game for a wheel and not pad. right now its still optimized for a pad, even if its not as OP as last year and previous versions.
    BUT that is no reason to not include full potential FFB for a wheel. And if at the end of the day pacegaps are too big then so be it, let pad players drive pad leagues and wheel players wheel leagues. i just dont see any reason why they to this day have not integrated actual wheel support.
    Take AC as an exmaple: its obviously optimized fully to a wheel as its a real racing game and the FFB is incredible well and accurate. Yet, a pad player can still almost reach wheel pace and the support for pad is very good too. a member of our league started playing ACC on a pad and he couldnt believe that his controller was able to give so detailed feedback on everything. So, it is possible to fully support wheels and still optimize for a pad.
  • mariohomoh's avatar
    mariohomoh
    Hero (Retired)
    3 years ago

    @Wollcott 

    And can you attest that you were driving a sim in a non-exhibition context specced to realistic settings? Bear in mind that in a exhibition or museum, the guy in the simracing booth is not a race or simulator engineer, that parameters for tyre grip are made on an software engine level, and simulators on booth, however fancy, are not decommissioned real F1 sims but rigs built in partnership with consumer grade brands like Fanatec and Thrustmaster. Ferrari for instance has a long, long time partnership with Thrustmaster and those booths are built by them with the general public in mind.

    Sorry for going over this point again. It’s just that from your reply it wasn’t clear if you got into a real F1 sim, or on an exhibition “F1 sim”.

    Back to iRacing, I’m not talking about PC specs to run the game. I’m referring to game engine and software parameters for handling and physics. On this one we’re going to have a hard disagreement, mate, as even FFB ultimately changes as a result of new tyre models or category updates (GT3, LMP, etc), and these get reworked frequently. Even 2023 Season 1 introduced significant BoP changes for the GT3 cars and they veritably change how a car handles.

    Again, I don’t see how alluding to iRacing being released in 2008 has any bearing on this debate.

    Now back to the torque and gear ratio, sorry for the crude paint intervention:

    If anyone here have any trouble reading the chart, I’ll be happy to break it down. But hopefully anyone can see the shortshifting and the frequent throttle modulation in gears as high as 5th?

    Anyway there was a dedicated section in Ultra’s video all about how off the mark the gear ratios are. Isn’t that exactly their addressing of torque and traction issues of F1 22? Gear ratios are precisely that, all about torque delivery.

  • dancrodrigues's avatar
    dancrodrigues
    3 years ago
    @Wollcott wrote:
    But about the first part:
    What bugs me the most is that F1 cars in actual simulators are MUCH easier to drive than the F1 game. I dont get the intention behind this. Why is it easier to dirve an F1 car on iRacing than the offical F1 game? if anything that makes people lose interest even more or compensate it by turning on assists.
    Thats why 2020 was so good. and as far as i know it was the only F1 game where developers had actual discussions and meetings with real life F1 drivers.

    There's no intention, mate. I think it's due to having to release yearly and, at the same time, bring something new and engagin to a wide range of players, from casuals to petrol heads every single year.

    They surely don't have enough time to code from scratch every year so they may add something here, another thing there and anyone who has some experince in coding knows that is terrible. Imagine small regs changes every year, plus adding story mode, then supercars to grow the player base and make more money... I have my reservations too on their work and in some bugs but I think they do great with their timescale - here in Brasil we say that the "blanket is too small" meaning one can't cover it all.

  • Wollcott's avatar
    Wollcott
    New Ace
    3 years ago
    @mariohomoh I drove a sim at red bull racing when my company was invited there. It's not the Sim they use for real F1. Still, there isn't really much differencies to iracing or similar. As I said the biggest difference is the screen and motion and just overall immersion you get. Had they given me a normal monitor and chair I would've said I'm playing rfactor2.

    About ffb in iracing. I have the game since 2016 and ffb on a Thrustmaster hasn't really changed whatsoever. Sure, there's updates but there's a massive difference in wheel support between direct drive and consumer wheels.

    Whilst in F1 I feel like a direct drive is a waste of money as there's barely wheel support (yes it does feel better and yes it's much stronger) but overall you're not getting close to the potential of a 1000€+ wheel.
  • Meza994's avatar
    Meza994
    Seasoned Ace
    3 years ago
    @mariohomoh Spa is a bad track to show throttle modulation in 5th gear as those parts are simply corners which they would run off the track if they kept it full throttle.. They modulate the throttle in those parts not because of a lack of traction.. Not disagreeing with the general thesis at all, just the example is not matching your point.
  • mariohomoh's avatar
    mariohomoh
    Hero (Retired)
    3 years ago
    @Meza994 throttle modulation at 5th gear is not the point. Going flat in 2nd is.

    Anyway, still easy peasy. Just tweet #TelemetryRequest 2022 Belgian GP VER SAI Q3, swapping the GP name and driver tags for different ones that you deem more "properly racey" 🙂
    This is not aimed at Meza, by the way. It's for anyone curious to check real life data.

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