We desperately need a overhaul of the ERS Model for F1 2023 or F1 20xx:To be more precise, a combination of the old F1 2018 - F1 2019 ERS Model (where we could switch through multiple different ERS Modes) & the newer F1 2020 - F1 2021 ERS Model (where ERS was fully automatic and we could only use the Overtake Button) would be needed, if we want a more realistic experience.As a example, that could be achieved by giving us 4 Fully Automated ERS Modes as SOC (State of Charge):SOC 1. ERS Charging 100% / No DeploymentSOC 2. ERS Charging 75% / ERS Deployment 25 %SOC 3. ERS Charging 50% / ERS Deployment 50 % SOC 4. ERS Charging 25% / ERS Deployment 75% The Attack Mode / Overtake Mode will stay as a button in the game, which we have to press in order to get a short temporary boost and 100% ERS Deployment.The Quali-Mode (or Party Mode), will only be available during Qualifying.This solution would, imo, be infintely better than what we got in F1 2020 & F1 2021!PS: Bonus Points for Codemasters, if they actually make it possible to see the change of SOC / Brake Bias / Differential as a "Pop Up" on the steering wheel display for Cockpit drivers, and possibly even add a proper Helmet Cam.

All in all, when I go back playing F1 2019 and have to micromanage 5 ers modes and 3 fuel mixes throughout the race it feels like a nightmare to me.

Sorry for the double posting but I guess this warrants a space of its own. I'll just refer to a few quality posts of the F1 Technical subreddit from verified users:From a verified F1 Performance Engineer about PU modes, ICE modes and the TD 37/20 ban:From the same user and the same discussion, going a bit in detail about how the PU supplying side of things works. That's maybe not as common knowledge as it should, but all customer teams have at least one PU guy from the engine supplier and most if not all PU settings must be validated by them before use. The teams do not have full and unabridged access to all the PU parameters. You'll often hear about this being discussed by the F1 tech guys and personnel in interviews, podcasts and such.Dig deep enough and you'll even find direct quotes from the TD 37 itself even though it wasn't publicly disclosed by the FIA, as usual.

I think, that good idea may be approach like with fuel on the F1 2020 - less differences between all the ERS modes, so micro management would be less powerfull.And maybe four or five modes:Mode 0: Fail-safe mode, to use only in case of failure - no deployment, no charge, or small chargeMode 1: Charge - more charge, less deployment, maybe 60% charge/40% deploymentMode 2: Default - equal charge and deployment 50/50%Mode 3: Push - less charge, more deployment, 40% charge/60% deploymentMode 4: Overtake - 80% deploy, 20% chargeMode 5: Quali - Deploy about 100% allowed deployment trough full lap distanceAll of the modes should be pre mapped for each circuit, or we can map it manually. OR just on the car settings, we can set manually deployment/charge rate for modes 1, 2 and 3.I think It would be more realistic, and it will make micro management, like in 2019 less powerfull.

@john_dragnst Meza can be very grating, sorry about that. There seems to be some misconceptions here some mix ups – and the media coverage over "party mode" ban certainly didn't help, it took a while until some proper pieces were written about that.What got banned was the changing of ICE modes during competitive laps. Basically the various different matrixes of ignition times and fuel/air ratios that the combustion engine can work with. These are now set for the whole quali and race session, but the teams can still run and play with them pretty much as they please on practice sessions and so on. They used to be combined with different ERS deployment maps too, but ERS modes were not banned and drivers are free to switch from different ERS modes during the race. The ERS side of things is restricted only by the max 4MJ/lap ES > MGU-K deployment and 2MJ/lap MGU-K > ES harvesting, with ES <> MGU-H being unlimited. Teams still run different ERS mappings to make good use of those boundaries and work the SoC accordingly to their ongoing strategy, but granted they're changed only a few times during their stints.Apart from the regs, that is also clear from those annotated onboard lap videos we often see in the community:Verstappen changing from recharge to a push mode on his Q3 pole lap at Abu Dhabi 2021 then back to recharge;Alonso engaging and disengaging recharge mode and other settings during formation lap in Abu Dhabi 2021Formation laps have free use of pace car engine modes too, but from the dash you can see how they've still got a good range of modes mapped to their rotary dials. There's also the occasional radio talk that's easy to spot if you have F1 TV. The ERS harvest mode is actively used, but there's also different push modes and the default one for what Mercedes calls "neutral laps" I think. It's only the combustion engine side of things that were banned by the FIA.This is all regulated by the fabled Technical Directive 37, but as far as I know TDs are released only for the teams, they're not publicly available. Regarding the ERS "sound", Meza threw a curve ball with that one and I'll leave it up to him to explain how he can hear the ERS in sound mix. As far as I know, and to that extent I agree with you, you'll never hear the ERS working per se, only the effects of its state on certain components. Examples from the top of my head:You'll obviously hear the ICE revving up as the wheel speed increases with the MGU-K deploying power, but the latter is connected directed to the crankshaft (it's linked after the engine in the power train series) so it does not really change the functioning of the combustion engine;What the exhaust mic captures is the wastegate state and what you hear is mainly it being opened releasing pressure while the MGU-H drives the turbo. So again, a consequence of the ERS working rather than its sounds – the wastegate can be opened in other scenarios regardless of the MGU-H state, so it's incorrect to think of it as an ERS sound.I guess it's mainly the latter that Meza was referring to, but it's up to him to clarify what "ERS sounds" he had in mind. By the way, yes, the ERS does take throttle position into account when deploying power so I do not get his point here either. From all I know it even goes beyond the basic on/off throttle state, working with what they call throttle demand instead of throttle position strictly speaking, but that taps onto how these cars have different throttle maps even on a driver per driver basis so let's leave it at that. But yes, the ordinary ERS map will consider throttle demand, gear, engine speed, and wheel speed when deploying power or driving the turbine. @Meza994 do you have or used to have an iRacing subscription? Or access to their forums in another way? You're playing this "W12 in iRacing" card so often yet... Not saying you're wrong, but can you elaborate on that instead of treating it like a trump card? Why are you assuming that it is the real deal? Take for example Mercedes' James Vowles interview to iRacing own Downshift podcast, episode 40. He goes on with detail on how the partnership came to be and how it panned out. Basically:Mercedes provided "broad spectrum ideas and some car data";iRacing put out the car model;Mercedes' Anthony Davidson (who is still their main simulator driver) and esports drivers Opmeer and Moreno (I think?) tested it out and said it was realistic;There are still areas Vowles think they need to work on, like their tyre model.It is misguiding to say it was made by Mercedes. It's an iRacing product made in collaboration with Merc. Even your "NASCAR expert" Jarno Opmeer was involved in the colab 🤣By all accounts it does seem to be a pretty good rendition of a F1 car, but unless you can back that a given thing was indeed included in the "broad spectrum ideas" and "some car data" Mercedes provided, I don't think you should be so liberally associating the iRacing and the real deal. Even more so when you often play that other card about Codemasters being casual games or the like and we shouldn't expect realism from them.

@GrandDragnYou got that one wrong, mate. Only ICE modes changing got banned, ERS modes are still free to switch. Perhaps if you could link us your source we could clear up the noise?As I said, you can get a good picture of what is going on if you've got a F1 TV subscription. Clips of in-race battles with ERS changing beyond the mere press of the overtake button are quite common too but they get taken down quickly. Anyway I'll try to link one here whenever one pops in my radar.Now if you've got a way to access the full race videos, I can point you out to some examples. From the Spanish GP:27'36 Lap 13 Lambiase: "strat 12 in the pit lane" and Max proceeds to change the engine mode dial27'53" Lap 14 Lambiase: "strat 8, strat 8. Torque 9" and Max proceeds with the 2 instructed adjustments29'06" Lap 14 Hugh Bird: "PU 8, position 4. PU 8, position 4 plus 2" – unfortunately though F1 TV won't give be the onboard footage, it's stuck in that front wing side camera for some reason!29'51" Lap 14 Hugh Bird: "Mode 6 when you [someting]. Mode 6" – same.30'43" Lap 14 Lambiase: "mode 7, Max" and Max moves his hands to perform the changes but spends most of the straight smashing the DRS button 🤣1:27:08 Lap 53 Bird: "Strat 8. strat 8. Ok, this will be your shot at fastest lap" and Checo fiddles with the engine rotaty dial:Besides that I know that at least Racefans has an ongoing archive of the radio highlights and you can see plenty of mentions to changing strats and modes.The ruling states that the same ICE modes are locked for quali and race sessions. They're free to change other PU parameters – ERS modes, engine braking, torque etc. – but not the engine maps.Can you please link us to the Taffin piece you speak about? Other than that, there's plenty of discussion on the famous F1 Technical forums and even the F1 Technical Subreddit, you'll often see Scarbs on both of them. That's if you don't mind some tech heavy talk, otherwise you'll also see this being discussed on the regular Formula 1 Reddit.Edit: Just to clarify, the F1 Technical are kind of legendary. You'll see plenty of people working all around the motorsport industry in there. The respective subreddit is also great and nicely moderated. Depending on what platform you use, you'll see that some users have special tags informing they're verified members of the industry (PU guys, aerodynamicists, gearbox guys, guys from the supply chain, etc) or from the media (as I said, Scarbs is in there). This verification is done by the moderation team.

[Suggestion] F1 2023 (or F1 20xx) - ERS Model Overhaul

59 Replies

Cpayne32
Hero+
4 years ago
@RedRevNow This won’t happen because the real life cars arent able to do this so it’s highly unlikely FOM (Formula 1 Management) would allow thid
RedRevNow
4 years ago
@Cpayne32In real life, the drivers are very much able to change the SOC (State of Charge) of the car, though they usually get directions from their Race Engineers on when to switch the Mode for strategic purposes.

FYI: Every single real life modern F1 Steering Wheel literally has the SOC dials and or Rotaries available, and those are perfectly remodeled and put into the F1 games by Codemasters too, so having the option to actually use them is just a no brainer and would improve the quality, realism and immersion of the game tenfold.
PS: Definition of SOC: "SOC rotary switch: Controls the state of charge of the ERS energy storage system, whether the system is generating or consuming energy."
Cpayne32
Hero+
4 years ago
@RedRevNow ah okay I got mixed up with only having the 3 deployment status
Blackbird90
4 years ago
@RedRevNow Teams in real life use more complex mapping of kers deployment, rather then just simply full boost mode or no boost at all. They can map deployment that gives peak boost out of slow corner or on back straight, if the driver asks or being advised for better energy use. Hence the teams usually have 10+ SOCs for that.
I'd also suggest reduced usage of OT button during the race, making it more tactical so to speak. No abuse of OT button.)
Dansmotorsport
Rising Vanguard
3 years ago
Disagree with this completely. What we have in 21 works perfectly fine. No need to change something that isn’t broke.
in terms of the SOC changing they only do this in Practice and qually not during the race as it’s locked during the race and they only have the overtake option.
I also fear if they change this your going to end up with what we had in 2019 where you have to micro manage ers through corners etc which people was doing abs it’s very realistic at all.
Meza994
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
@Dansmotorsport We had this covered in the old Forum..

A) the teams have different mappings that are used and Merc even did this when they did the W12 for iRacing so it is realistic.

B) It just requires a limit to changing the mode, either once or twice per lap as maximum kills any mico managing, biggest management would be to with 2 changes per lap switching it for more technical sectors so you only have higher deployment in highspeed sectors..

C) the old forum discussion (the older one) was about having 2-3 modes + overtake for extreme situations. I was more for 2 one with more battery gain and one with more power output (Recovery and Hotlap mode) so it wouldnt be micromanagement at all.. Also having us decide the deployment rate ourselfes in the setup, each track is different!

D) You can never have it suit everyone. For esports and higher leagues micromanagement was a thing in 2019, for the casual it was just too many modes and they didnt know which to use, for the more technical but not competitive players it was nice having a solution for every situation.. Never satisfying all needs with the little choice we have.

E) Ideally we would have 1 mode and could change in our setups to add 1 or 2 modes and in multiplayer options restricting this for those who want simple ERS
Freakstyle
New Scout
3 years ago
Personally i wouldn't say so, the real life drivers had heavy input on how ERS should be implemented in the game due to their non official GPs they were in. And they advised reducing the ERS modes for future titles due to it not being realistic
Meza994
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
@Freakstyle They did so because the drivers dont control it, the teams control the modes.. Mercedes programmed multiple modes themselfes so it is realistic..
Asstek46
3 years ago
They have to make a compromise between performance and reliability. Using the settings with higher performance compromises the reliability of the vehicle by rapidly increasing damage to the engine components. This could be good to avoid that excessive change of setting that was done in 2018 and 2019 where at each corner entry you climbed the most conservative power supply and immediately increased the most performance one when exiting.
Meza994
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
@Asstek46 No in esports they would still switch like crazy and even in normal GPs people would feel the need to only run high modes in the first half of a straight.. Forcing a change limit is easiest to avoid excessive change sadly