How is Madden 21 not as good as NFL 2k5?
How come EA never answers to critique of the game and how its not even close to as good as a game that came out 15 years ago in NFL 2k5? who can I email to get answers? as a paying customer i feel as...
Forum Discussion
EA_Blueberry
Community Manager
Community ManagerAppreciate your patience waiting on a response, @Sabreu1989 I had to prioritize specific issues that popped up across some EA titles as well as other tasks like reporting before I was able to sit down and have a chat with you. When issues pop up we want to make sure the Madden team is notified right away so it's addressed for players as quickly as possible.
I'm not sure what I'll say will change your thoughts on the game in any way, but that's what these forums are: an open discussion of each other's thoughts on the current state of the product. I've been playing the game since the 90s so maybe that's why I'm in this spot today. I'm not master of the game but a big fan and like any other gamer out there that wants to see a better football game every year.
This is going to be an open discussion and I'll do my best to chat about points made in here with the knowledge that I have available. There could be information we unfortunately can't disclose on these forums as it's either confidential as we do have limits on what info we have for future development to prevent leaks or miscommunication.
Throwing the ball over the receiver's head on a short slant route. I know this can happen more often in Franchise when building up a lower rated QB, but as far as I know this shouldn't happen too often with the majority of QBs because most are high enough level to avoid this outcome. I usually only see this happen when the ball is throw while moving in the pocket and using the stick to lead the receiver. It's possible LB was held down to throw a high pass.
If we're talking about Franchise and a QB is doing this. If their rating is on the lower end it's probably best to build up their XP through practice to simulate their readiness to start. Then again, if QBs are playing at an NFL level they're not going to be throwing balls over receivers heads on a regular basis 10 yards out (well, there's been some games you've seen horrific performances from even the greats like Peyton Manning, but those are fringe cases).
Now about that first video where you saw the safety move up and the defense shift. That was automated from my memory. With how competitive Madden NFL is now in our current landscape, it's more in the hands of the player to shift their defense and make audibles on the fly to counter players. You can nearly simulate what the defense did in that clip in Madden NFL 21 if you shift the linebackers over and control the safety. Seeing more of this type of pre-snap behavior in the game would be great though, especially for games against the AI. I know the team is looking to add more content in weekly based off what's happening during the actual NFL season, so it's dependent on what behaviors teams do on defense in real life and whether they repeatedly shift spots on the field when players are in motion. I'm excited for Madden NFL 22 because developers get more used to next-gen technology so over time they'll get to really rev up the engine, leading to more changes for those small things in game people take for granted like the example in the video.
I can't deny the fact I agree with you on the video how this would be a great feature to add in the game. It was a little rough watching the sluggish animations and dive at the end. Those are some areas we can agree on that have been improved in Madden over the years though, so there's some give and take.
In the 2nd clip:
The first point about the receiver and defenders tracking the ball/WR. You will absolutely see this improved going forward. If you're playing on Gen5, it utilizes next-gen stats so whatever players are actually doing in real life that will translate to in-game. The speed you see on the field with Tyreek Hill will feel just like it does in real life because the stats are being integrated in game through real life tracking. If a receiver runs a fly route in real life you're not going to see 4 defenders instantly showing up at the point of the catch like you saw in that video. That was unrealistic?
NFL player tracking, also known as Next Gen Stats, is the capture of real time location data, speed and acceleration for every player, every play on every inch of the field. Sensors throughout the stadium track RFID tags placed on players' shoulder pads, charting individual movements within inches in every NFL stadium.
At 3:35 he starts to talk about head tracking which is great animation, but doesn't touch up on how the linebacker had his momentum going forward and was able to turn back instantly on a dime to go after the ball. Momentum and physics is a big innovation in Madden NFL that can be easily forgotten. He goes on to talk about the receiver extending the ball. We actually added that in a post-launch title update (this video is from September 30th, 2020).
I'd love to see the half-time show return. I don't want to see generic cut scenes that can be easily reproduced over time to where the half-time show will be predictable months after launch, causing you to skip it to get back to the game as Ryan mentioned in the video. I agree with him the immersion part of it is huge, it's part of the NFL. Nothing like sitting on the couch with your sibling or playing a friend online in a heated battle only to see the big plays of the game add to the suspense. Now this isn't mentioned in Madden NFL 22's future updates, but then again not everything included on this post is what you'll only see. I can't confirm it's going to be added, but if the team does plan to add it I assure you they are considering ways to make it even better than before.
I can't touch up too much on branding. It was cool to see ESPN in the game though. That and even tattoos can lead up to a larger cost for a business to put it in the game. I hope we see more real life partnerships going forward to deliver the immersion players are seeking. It has to be a deal that makes sense for all parties.
In that third video that was created in March 24th before Madden NFL came out and he goes to discuss the offense switching to defense on a turnover where they moved towards the sideline to cut off the ball carrier's path. This happens in Madden NFL 21. A lot of offenses don't really play good defense in real life when a turnover happens so you shouldn't expect the offense to react as well as a defense, in my honest opinion.
Thank you for sharing the videos and we'll pass this feedback along. I know Ryan is always critical of our title every year to help encourage it to be even better. It's important to know that when some accounts have significant followings and share videos where they highlight bugs or poor animations, and it can put off a perception where it's "broken" feature or happens all the time, when in fact it's happening to a small amount of players compared to the overall population.
@EA_Blueberry Thanks for the lengthy response blueberry and i appreciate you going into detail about a few of the videos I sent, doing this is the most accountability I've seen from anyone in EA and i cant tell you how much respect I have for you in actually taking the time to respond to my grievances.
with that said, theres a few points I would like address
1. The QB overthrowing the receiver on a slant rout or a flat straight to a LB actually happens on average once a game, and i play competitive so i know not to high ball throw it in that situation. I actually play alot of MUT so patrick mahomes is my QB and hes a 91 ovr. It happens way more often than it should. I do understand that games are not going to be perfect tho and this is just a very minor annoyance I can get over. But, it DOES happen fairly often to highly rated QB's, should be looked at and tweaked IMO.
2. Yes, of course the tackling and diving animations are definitely better in today's madden, but keep in mind I'am comparing a game from 15 years ago and the reason why im using such an extreme example is that I feel like the game should have improved considerably from this version of the game and it just feels like its barely any better of a game as a WHOLE, not just the animations and graphics, as that is going to just get better over time no matter what
I can agree with your point on the second video about it being more in the hands of the player to make those adjustments as i do play madden competitively. But it still feels like the AI should be a little bit smarter than it is, i cant control everyone, i need the AI to make some smart football decisions after the ball is snapped. But yes, i can agree with this point as i myself have been able to adjust and play good defense this way. nonetheless there is room for improvement here and it would make defense more enjoyable to play if the AI made better decisions on the field.
with all that said, there were a few points i made about the game that were not comparing 2k5 to madden per say, but just in general really annoying things that happen during a game that you did not address, again thank you so much for the lengthy response and you honestly have restored my faith in EA just a little bit by actually caring to respond to me even though i have been hostile. I will list the points below that i REALLY want answers for. the ones you mentioned and addressed were issues but those dont stop me from enjoying the gaming experience necessarily while these below really do.
2.Catching Animations
In this years madden receivers often dont even attempt to jump and catch sometimes and are like paper and easily drop 3 to 4 totally catchable balls off the tiniest amount of contact. and i would understand that if it happened when a corner back is facing a less superior Wide receiver than him. but yesterday DK metcalf got completely locked down by a 72 overall corner back with less speed and strength by atleast 20 ovr points. again this goes back to the pre-determined animation problem the game has that barely every popped up in even madden 08 or 12 and especially in 2k.
3.Linebacker and CB catching
im sorry, but no linebacker in the NFL can make some of the crazy plays i see in this years madden, it seems like Linebackers and all defenders have better catching skills than actual offensive players. while you constantly see receivers drop the ball from contact this almost NEVER happens to CB or LB's. no matter how much contact there is, they are going to catch it, because the animation is pre-determined. not reaction based. Linebackers consistently make 360 diving backwards catching interceptions and to be honest ive never seen a linebacker do this in my life.
4.Running The Ball
running in this game feels like i barely have any control over my running backs change of direction, the whole thing feels "slippery" and kind of "stuck in the mud" I understand how to use the stick skills, but again players have found a way to exploit this weird new way of running in a way that is super unrealistic and never happens in actual football. like the stop and go (which i always use because its so effective in this game) you rarely see a player go from full sprint to complete full stop back to full sprint again in real life, unless they are tyreke hill and even he rarely does this. its a situational move in football and in madden its the only way to reliably run the ball without getting sucked into an tackle animation from a DE or LB thats already being blocked by an offensive lineman.
5. EA's lack of response to critique of the game is what bothers me the most, it feels like EA thinks that we as the consumer are the problem and we just dont understand what it takes to make a good game and that we should just be happy with what we get and shut up. i mean, clints response of "well 2 is better than 1" was downright disrespectful to people who pay hard earned money to play the game.
And about ryans channel,I actually came across it because of how many bugs and glitches i was experiencing and was wondering if it happened to other people or just me. But no, it really does happen almost every game, theres ATLEAST one "whhhhat in the heck" moment. and I think in the pursuit of excellence and perfection that stuff should definitely be cleaned up. I feel like this is a common tactic EA uses where the deflection is "but people are playing our game so it must be fine" or "or this must happen to only a few players in the player base" but if they actually surveyed the landscape of their customers they would see that its a very common occurrence in the game for a ton of people, not just having a warped perception of how many glitches and bugs there are from watching a channel that highlights those things.
I think you made some good points though and I will for sure be taking what you said into account while playing the game. you definitely gave me some perspective on some of the videos i sent and I do appreciate that.
with that said, theres a few points I would like address
1. The QB overthrowing the receiver on a slant rout or a flat straight to a LB actually happens on average once a game, and i play competitive so i know not to high ball throw it in that situation. I actually play alot of MUT so patrick mahomes is my QB and hes a 91 ovr. It happens way more often than it should. I do understand that games are not going to be perfect tho and this is just a very minor annoyance I can get over. But, it DOES happen fairly often to highly rated QB's, should be looked at and tweaked IMO.
2. Yes, of course the tackling and diving animations are definitely better in today's madden, but keep in mind I'am comparing a game from 15 years ago and the reason why im using such an extreme example is that I feel like the game should have improved considerably from this version of the game and it just feels like its barely any better of a game as a WHOLE, not just the animations and graphics, as that is going to just get better over time no matter what
I can agree with your point on the second video about it being more in the hands of the player to make those adjustments as i do play madden competitively. But it still feels like the AI should be a little bit smarter than it is, i cant control everyone, i need the AI to make some smart football decisions after the ball is snapped. But yes, i can agree with this point as i myself have been able to adjust and play good defense this way. nonetheless there is room for improvement here and it would make defense more enjoyable to play if the AI made better decisions on the field.
with all that said, there were a few points i made about the game that were not comparing 2k5 to madden per say, but just in general really annoying things that happen during a game that you did not address, again thank you so much for the lengthy response and you honestly have restored my faith in EA just a little bit by actually caring to respond to me even though i have been hostile. I will list the points below that i REALLY want answers for. the ones you mentioned and addressed were issues but those dont stop me from enjoying the gaming experience necessarily while these below really do.
2.Catching Animations
In this years madden receivers often dont even attempt to jump and catch sometimes and are like paper and easily drop 3 to 4 totally catchable balls off the tiniest amount of contact. and i would understand that if it happened when a corner back is facing a less superior Wide receiver than him. but yesterday DK metcalf got completely locked down by a 72 overall corner back with less speed and strength by atleast 20 ovr points. again this goes back to the pre-determined animation problem the game has that barely every popped up in even madden 08 or 12 and especially in 2k.
3.Linebacker and CB catching
im sorry, but no linebacker in the NFL can make some of the crazy plays i see in this years madden, it seems like Linebackers and all defenders have better catching skills than actual offensive players. while you constantly see receivers drop the ball from contact this almost NEVER happens to CB or LB's. no matter how much contact there is, they are going to catch it, because the animation is pre-determined. not reaction based. Linebackers consistently make 360 diving backwards catching interceptions and to be honest ive never seen a linebacker do this in my life.
4.Running The Ball
running in this game feels like i barely have any control over my running backs change of direction, the whole thing feels "slippery" and kind of "stuck in the mud" I understand how to use the stick skills, but again players have found a way to exploit this weird new way of running in a way that is super unrealistic and never happens in actual football. like the stop and go (which i always use because its so effective in this game) you rarely see a player go from full sprint to complete full stop back to full sprint again in real life, unless they are tyreke hill and even he rarely does this. its a situational move in football and in madden its the only way to reliably run the ball without getting sucked into an tackle animation from a DE or LB thats already being blocked by an offensive lineman.
5. EA's lack of response to critique of the game is what bothers me the most, it feels like EA thinks that we as the consumer are the problem and we just dont understand what it takes to make a good game and that we should just be happy with what we get and shut up. i mean, clints response of "well 2 is better than 1" was downright disrespectful to people who pay hard earned money to play the game.
And about ryans channel,I actually came across it because of how many bugs and glitches i was experiencing and was wondering if it happened to other people or just me. But no, it really does happen almost every game, theres ATLEAST one "whhhhat in the heck" moment. and I think in the pursuit of excellence and perfection that stuff should definitely be cleaned up. I feel like this is a common tactic EA uses where the deflection is "but people are playing our game so it must be fine" or "or this must happen to only a few players in the player base" but if they actually surveyed the landscape of their customers they would see that its a very common occurrence in the game for a ton of people, not just having a warped perception of how many glitches and bugs there are from watching a channel that highlights those things.
I think you made some good points though and I will for sure be taking what you said into account while playing the game. you definitely gave me some perspective on some of the videos i sent and I do appreciate that.
