Benefactor (contains spoilers)
Anyone notice that the races the benefactor used? Because I only remember krogen, turian, asari, human, and salarian.
In ME3 you can get a picture of Tali so you know what a quarian looks like. I...
Forum Discussion
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@EgoMania wrote:
If it is SAM, then why would SAM help Ryder with finding out about Jien Garcen's death being murder and then allow the revealing of the existence of this mysterious benefactor to begin with?
For the same reason SAM is giving you any of the subplots in dribs and drabs. The "memory blocks" have been removed. The benefactor, Jien, and fate of the Milky Way are all tied together.
You could argue that Alec blocked all reference to Ellen from memory but, unless I didn't understand the flashback, SAM has known your Ma was in cryo the whole game - just didn't tell you any faster than what hitting progress unlocks allowed. I'm not even sure if SAM didn't arrange it all itself. I know I would look for ways around suddenly missing information and an AI has infinitely greater processing speed and raw computing power to put to the task.
SAM is leading you slowly through the scenario at a speed, and with conclusions, it is comfortable with.
I don't know. In ME2 EDI had a bunch of information that was part of her but she was unaware of/cut off from due to the AI shackles. When Joker removed them he gave her access to them again. AIs are powerful, but there are ways to block them which they cannot get around on their own. The way the Alec memory missions play out you are effectively an organic key to a series of individual shackles, and each trigger helps set a mental map that releases 1 "tumbler" in the lock
@fudgietroll wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@EgoMania wrote:
If it is SAM, then why would SAM help Ryder with finding out about Jien Garcen's death being murder and then allow the revealing of the existence of this mysterious benefactor to begin with?
For the same reason SAM is giving you any of the subplots in dribs and drabs. The "memory blocks" have been removed. The benefactor, Jien, and fate of the Milky Way are all tied together.
You could argue that Alec blocked all reference to Ellen from memory but, unless I didn't understand the flashback, SAM has known your Ma was in cryo the whole game - just didn't tell you any faster than what hitting progress unlocks allowed. I'm not even sure if SAM didn't arrange it all itself. I know I would look for ways around suddenly missing information and an AI has infinitely greater processing speed and raw computing power to put to the task.
SAM is leading you slowly through the scenario at a speed, and with conclusions, it is comfortable with.
I don't know. In ME2 EDI had a bunch of information that was part of her but she was unaware of/cut off from due to the AI shackles. When Joker removed them he gave her access to them again. AIs are powerful, but there are ways to block them which they cannot get around on their own. The way the Alec memory missions play out you are effectively an organic key to a series of individual shackles, and each trigger helps set a mental map that releases 1 "tumbler" in the lock
Unless you think the tumblers/shackles continue on to future games, they been removed. SAM says he finds them being there in the first place unique. Even if SAM didn't have direct information it can do that post-mortem reconstruction trick and try to recreate whatever got intentionally blocked - a trick EDI was never capable of pulling.
The whole arrangement is kinda hokey in the first place. Markers tied to physical locations nobody has ever been to be construed as "progress" along the Pathfinder path that I'm given as something dad did with a simple "encrypt memories" command. SAM wasn't aware of the command being possible or what it would encrypt is a pretty big stretch. Complicity is a whole lot easier to believe.
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@fudgietroll wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@EgoMania wrote:
If it is SAM, then why would SAM help Ryder with finding out about Jien Garcen's death being murder and then allow the revealing of the existence of this mysterious benefactor to begin with?
For the same reason SAM is giving you any of the subplots in dribs and drabs. The "memory blocks" have been removed. The benefactor, Jien, and fate of the Milky Way are all tied together.
You could argue that Alec blocked all reference to Ellen from memory but, unless I didn't understand the flashback, SAM has known your Ma was in cryo the whole game - just didn't tell you any faster than what hitting progress unlocks allowed. I'm not even sure if SAM didn't arrange it all itself. I know I would look for ways around suddenly missing information and an AI has infinitely greater processing speed and raw computing power to put to the task.
SAM is leading you slowly through the scenario at a speed, and with conclusions, it is comfortable with.
I don't know. In ME2 EDI had a bunch of information that was part of her but she was unaware of/cut off from due to the AI shackles. When Joker removed them he gave her access to them again. AIs are powerful, but there are ways to block them which they cannot get around on their own. The way the Alec memory missions play out you are effectively an organic key to a series of individual shackles, and each trigger helps set a mental map that releases 1 "tumbler" in the lock
Unless you think the tumblers/shackles continue on to future games, they been removed. SAM says he finds them being there in the first place unique. Even if SAM didn't have direct information it can do that post-mortem reconstruction trick and try to recreate whatever got intentionally blocked - a trick EDI was never capable of pulling.
The whole arrangement is kinda hokey in the first place. Markers tied to physical locations nobody has ever been to be construed as "progress" along the Pathfinder path that I'm given as something dad did with a simple "encrypt memories" command. SAM wasn't aware of the command being possible or what it would encrypt is a pretty big stretch. Complicity is a whole lot easier to believe.
And now we are back to the whole Alec discussion. Alec made SAM and could, and possibly did, add shackles whenever he wanted. The assumption that he did so would allow us to continue to uncover the breadcrumbs of Alec's master plan over the following games. We may discover that Ellen was part of this too.
More to the point, Alec obviously planned to turn over the SAM link to one or more of his family at some point, and had obviously prepared these memories to play out for them over time. He probably set them to be keyed by a certain series of the organic user's neural maps. The glowing points in space are a visual representation of when Ryder's sensory, physical, and neurological stimulation brought their neural map into close enough approximation of the required neural map to "unlock"
@fudgietroll wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@fudgietroll wrote:
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@EgoMania wrote:
If it is SAM, then why would SAM help Ryder with finding out about Jien Garcen's death being murder and then allow the revealing of the existence of this mysterious benefactor to begin with?
For the same reason SAM is giving you any of the subplots in dribs and drabs. The "memory blocks" have been removed. The benefactor, Jien, and fate of the Milky Way are all tied together.
You could argue that Alec blocked all reference to Ellen from memory but, unless I didn't understand the flashback, SAM has known your Ma was in cryo the whole game - just didn't tell you any faster than what hitting progress unlocks allowed. I'm not even sure if SAM didn't arrange it all itself. I know I would look for ways around suddenly missing information and an AI has infinitely greater processing speed and raw computing power to put to the task.
SAM is leading you slowly through the scenario at a speed, and with conclusions, it is comfortable with.
I don't know. In ME2 EDI had a bunch of information that was part of her but she was unaware of/cut off from due to the AI shackles. When Joker removed them he gave her access to them again. AIs are powerful, but there are ways to block them which they cannot get around on their own. The way the Alec memory missions play out you are effectively an organic key to a series of individual shackles, and each trigger helps set a mental map that releases 1 "tumbler" in the lock
Unless you think the tumblers/shackles continue on to future games, they been removed. SAM says he finds them being there in the first place unique. Even if SAM didn't have direct information it can do that post-mortem reconstruction trick and try to recreate whatever got intentionally blocked - a trick EDI was never capable of pulling.
The whole arrangement is kinda hokey in the first place. Markers tied to physical locations nobody has ever been to be construed as "progress" along the Pathfinder path that I'm given as something dad did with a simple "encrypt memories" command. SAM wasn't aware of the command being possible or what it would encrypt is a pretty big stretch. Complicity is a whole lot easier to believe.
And now we are back to the whole Alec discussion. Alec made SAM and could, and possibly did, add shackles whenever he wanted. The assumption that he did so would allow us to continue to uncover the breadcrumbs of Alec's master plan over the following games. We may discover that Ellen was part of this too.
More to the point, Alec obviously planned to turn over the SAM link to one or more of his family at some point, and had obviously prepared these memories to play out for them over time. He probably set them to be keyed by a certain series of the organic user's neural maps. The glowing points in space are a visual representation of when Ryder's sensory, physical, and neurological stimulation brought their neural map into close enough approximation of the required neural map to "unlock"
While it may be possible that Alec constructed all of this and made SAM an unwilling participant - it doesn't make any sense. Why? What would be gained? Just because you can construct some argument to make it theoretically possible does not make it probable. SAM tells me this is a unique thing. SAM's log tells me before Alec dies that Cora is to be his successor.... unless you carefully study the wording which leaves theoretical wiggle room. People trying to wiggle out of things set up particular definitions and wiggle room in their wording. SAM tells me his abilities are beyond what the Initiative can comprehend... and Alec is part of the Initiative.
It's your brother. It's mom and dad are your mom and dad. The entire "human experience" is based on Alec and his interpretations of things, reasoning, and motives. SAM is an extension of Alec that lives in my head. As quick as he decides the only way out of the Archon's trap is to kill me I *do* ask him if there's any other solution and it doesn't even pause for a full second before replying that there's none - that might be just because that is what the script calls for... or it only took him the time the Archon chatted with me to consider every other theoretical possibility. It is working fast and was designed to solve problems, largely before I am even aware there are problems. I don't think an encrypt memory command is going to disable SAM. Why even bother? Alec doesn't need to.
for a machine those 2 seconds sam took before replying is a eternity thats why ai is superior to the human mind in the time it takes us to come up with a solution the ai has already carried out said solution all this miss trust of sam makes me think that our own society is to narrow minded for true ai
@ViViD_Prime wrote:
for a machine those 2 seconds sam took before replying is a eternity thats why ai is superior to the human mind in the time it takes us to come up with a solution the ai has already carried out said solution all this miss trust of sam makes me think that our own society is to narrow minded for true ai
Well, it's not like SAM comes up with the creative solution.
"It will take years if not decades to find Meridian, Ryder."
Suvi. "We'll plot the course by mapping the 'currents' of the Scourge and using Remnant scout vessels! Only days!"
@ViViD_Prime wrote:
for a machine those 2 seconds sam took before replying is a eternity thats why ai is superior to the human mind in the time it takes us to come up with a solution the ai has already carried out said solution all this miss trust of sam makes me think that our own society is to narrow minded for true ai
I concur. SAM has half the game to figure out how to get around an "encrypt memories" command. It takes him all of a handful of seconds to figure out how to defeat Knight's virus. She may be no Alec, but programming Overlord means she's no slouch.
If the game is to be believed, it takes him the length of time you fight off some Kett to fully teach itself remnant and how to work the tech from Alecs sensory imput looking at a console.
i was refering to when he kills you arthurh3535 sam has already calculated all means of escape and found the only way to escape is to kill you lets say for that encounter you didn't have sam you'd have no way out and most likely end up a lab experiment or exalted ... so ye I put my trust in sam :D
@ViViD_Prime wrote:
i was refering to when he kills you @arthurh3535 sam has already calculated all means of escape and found the only way to escape is to kill you lets say for that encounter you didn't have sam you'd have no way out and most likely end up a lab experiment or exalted ... so ye I put my trust in sam :D
Like I have a choice? 😃
Forced synthesis was the route Bioware decided to take Mass Effect for us and to put an end to the Milky Way since the player base wouldn't agree. This time they wrote it so I couldn't use Shep as an argument for not accepting it too - I got someone green and pretty wishy-washy about... pretty much anything..
I dunno n7's and shepard in general always seemed overrated in the end its the player not the character that is the successful one put shepard in the game as a enemy and s/he would go down like any other opponent probley wouldn't even be much of a fight I mean i get that people are a fan of the character but shepard in the same situation without sam would still face the same posibility of lab experiment or exaltation even as green behind the ears "which sara and scott aren't actually sara being ex alliance same with scott" I still don't know where people get the rapid response thing with scott by his own admission in the game he has no such backstory :D he was simply a babysitting a relay it could be a novel vs game inconsitency i guess i prefer to take the ingame responses as the real canon but thats just a personal choice specially after companies like blizzard likes to contradict or re-write their novel canon :D
a similiar event would be the end of mass effect 3 in all endings you die there no choice no way out even the "invicibile" commander shepard has no way out the end result is the same you died ...
the rapid response thing is in the lore (aka codex) in the first trilogy.
if alliance forces are stationed at a relay (especially arcturus) they are there to react to any hostile action that is beyond the capabilities of the garrison forces to deal with.
so in the alliance actually watching over a relay, is to be part of a rapid deployment unit.
exept according to scott him self his never been beyond the relay ... which is why it puzzled me it's one of the subjects you can talk about once he wakes up if your playing sara he never mentions any rapid response unit
while scott says he's never been through a relay, it could just mean there was never a reason to deploy him anywhere. however, i don't recall him saying that he'd never been through one (but, i could also be mistaken), just that he always wondered what was beyond it... not really the same thing, though it could allude to the same thing i suppose.
as to him never mentioning it, could just be an oversight by the writers. wouldn't surprise me one bit.
---edit
and by oversight by writers, i mean that it's possible that... say, the writers either forgot that being stationed at a relay would mean scott was rapid deployment, or just didn't think to mention it.
@CasperTheLich wrote:
while scott says he's never been through a relay, it could just mean there was never a reason to deploy him anywhere. however, i don't recall him saying that he'd never been through one (but, i could also be mistaken), just that he always wondered what was beyond it... not really the same thing, though it could allude to the same thing i suppose.
as to him never mentioning it, could just be an oversight by the writers. wouldn't surprise me one bit.
---edit
and by oversight by writers, i mean that it's possible that... say, the writers either forgot that being stationed at a relay would mean scott was rapid deployment, or just didn't think to mention it.
Or that literally he never gets deployed through it because nothing ever happened.
@ViViD_Prime wrote:
I dunno n7's and shepard in general always seemed overrated in the end its the player not the character that is the successful one put shepard in the game as a enemy and s/he would go down like any other opponent probley wouldn't even be much of a fight I mean i get that people are a fan of the character but shepard in the same situation without sam would still face the same posibility of lab experiment or exaltation even as green behind the ears "which sara and scott aren't actually sara being ex alliance same with scott" I still don't know where people get the rapid response thing with scott by his own admission in the game he has no such backstory :D he was simply a babysitting a relay it could be a novel vs game inconsitency i guess i prefer to take the ingame responses as the real canon but thats just a personal choice specially after companies like blizzard likes to contradict or re-write their novel canon :D
a similiar event would be the end of mass effect 3 in all endings you die there no choice no way out even the "invicibile" commander shepard has no way out the end result is the same you died ...
I am wandering from my wandering with some general grousing but, technically, you can survive. The destroy ending can hold the possibility. I'm talking more that Shep would never voluntarily go for an AI getting stuck in his head (and technically neither did I since I never had any possible route other than to read what was written). Sure. If you write the story where there's only one possible solution then there is only one possible solution.
Actually, I think the only "bad ending for all sapients" in ME3 is the do nothing (shoot the Star Child futilely) and the Star Child/Reapers win.
@arthurh3535 wrote:
Actually, I think the only "bad ending for all sapients" in ME3 is the do nothing (shoot the Star Child futilely) and the Star Child/Reapers win.
well, i know i'd probably be pissed if all of a sudden i wakeup with green glowy junk all over me, and being basically a sort of lame cyborg... if i'm going to be cyberized, a want a bada** cyborg body. not just green circuitry plastered everywhere.
---edit
so does that still make the green ending "good"?
@CasperTheLich wrote:
@arthurh3535 wrote:
Actually, I think the only "bad ending for all sapients" in ME3 is the do nothing (shoot the Star Child futilely) and the Star Child/Reapers win.
well, i know i'd probably be pissed if all of a sudden i wakeup with green glowy junk all over me, and being basically a sort of lame cyborg... if i'm going to be cyberized, a want a bada** cyborg body. not just green circuitry plastered everywhere.
But you are alive to be pissed off about it! :P
@arthurh3535 wrote:
@CasperTheLich wrote:
@arthurh3535 wrote:
Actually, I think the only "bad ending for all sapients" in ME3 is the do nothing (shoot the Star Child futilely) and the Star Child/Reapers win.
well, i know i'd probably be pissed if all of a sudden i wakeup with green glowy junk all over me, and being basically a sort of lame cyborg... if i'm going to be cyberized, a want a bada** cyborg body. not just green circuitry plastered everywhere.
But you are alive to be pissed off about it! :P
....AND we have the plot of ME:A in a couple short posts. 👿
@jpcerutti1 wrote:
@arthurh3535 wrote:
@CasperTheLich wrote:
@arthurh3535 wrote:
Actually, I think the only "bad ending for all sapients" in ME3 is the do nothing (shoot the Star Child futilely) and the Star Child/Reapers win.
well, i know i'd probably be pissed if all of a sudden i wakeup with green glowy junk all over me, and being basically a sort of lame cyborg... if i'm going to be cyberized, a want a bada** cyborg body. not just green circuitry plastered everywhere.
But you are alive to be pissed off about it! :P
....AND we have the plot of ME:A in a couple short posts. 👿
priceless. that gave me a good chuckle.
Although I dis not see SAM as a real contender for the Benefactor, because I would find that extremely lame and far fetched considering how SAM has behaved so far, there is something I remember about Alec Ryder.
He reasoned that a symbiotic relationship would stop the threat of AI as the AI is part of a being and therefore not an enemy but part of itself. However, I do find that a bit naive since SAMs can be transferred from one person to another and therefore can sabotage a host and then jump hosts. We can't really assume that an AI with all its intelligence wouldn't be able to figure that out.
I mean, for all we know SAMs ultimate purpose is to join up with Ellen Ryder and the other Ryders are simple vessels to be used until that's possible. It could've been a directive from Alex that got a bit too engrained in SAM.
So yeah, if that were the case I could actually follow what SAMs been doing so far.
@CasperTheLich wrote:
while scott says he's never been through a relay, it could just mean there was never a reason to deploy him anywhere. however, i don't recall him saying that he'd never been through one (but, i could also be mistaken), just that he always wondered what was beyond it... not really the same thing, though it could allude to the same thing i suppose.
as to him never mentioning it, could just be an oversight by the writers. wouldn't surprise me one bit.
---edit
and by oversight by writers, i mean that it's possible that... say, the writers either forgot that being stationed at a relay would mean scott was rapid deployment, or just didn't think to mention it.
Actually, he does mention that he was helping arm and train colonies to hold off raids, kind of like Ash/Kaiden and MSV Arrow, and they halted some pirate attacks. Actually, a fun little Easter Egg the writers could add would be having Scott talk about meeting Ash/Kaiden while on this mission
It's possible he mentions it if your playing scott but if your playing sara he makes no such reference as sara he basically only says he was babysitting a relay if you ask him about his military service
