I forgot to ask this before. To me, and when we were being befried about the game, Ryder was supposed to come from the unknown, and then, slowly climb up to the Heroic aspect, not really in the same level of Shepard, but on the right form around it. To some people, he never got too heroic, a simple shadow of Shepard's. To me, however, he (or she, sorry, I forget to point it out) gets the spotlight only too fast. People simply trust you too fast, you glow too fast, thing feel rushed. Easy. So, what do you think? Is Ryder too flashy or too dim?

i can't speak to a male ryder, because i started an infiltrator character with one before i figured out how much i dislike their version of sniper rifles... now with sara ryder, i thought her tone fit her character, and in my opinion she could sound kind of basa**-ish with the right dialogue choices. but, mainly my issue with the character, revolved around the spoken dialogue not matching what i selected in the dialogue wheel, and i too had moments where i thought... did she really just say that? *facepalm* as for people starting to trust you... for the most part they don't at first. they only start trusting you when you actually start accomplishing tasks (or that's what it seems like to me). and you have to remember the nexus was a few months form total failure/death when you arrived with the hyperion. a little success in the face of total annihilation goes a long way. IMHO, you folks might just be a tad too critical about that initial buildup of trust, notice i said might. ---edit typos

I have to say I like how respectful everyone has stayed in this topic. It was an interesting one from the OP and I've enjoyed many of the responses and perspectives. I may bring a couple unique perspectives to the table, so thought I'd jump in and share. First, I haven't played the first ME games. I know. The massive sighs most of you are breathing right now, coupled with an overwhelming desire to tell me how much I need to play one or more of the older games that are so nostalgic for so many of you 🙂. Second, as a first responder in real life, I've been in situations from minor car accidents and workplace situations to more major situations. This gives me a real-life perspective on how people ACTUALLY behave in real emergency situations. Having said that, I felt they handled everything pretty good in my opinion (not saying perfect, but my complaints are fairly small). I never personally felt like Ryder was "heroified" at all really. Even the primary antagonist realizes the mistake of his own view of Ryder, and as others have already stated, most NPCs, including other leaders and your own crew, realize and comment upon the fact that SAM, not you, is the real power behind your abilities as Pathfinder. Some do so directly, some indirectly with subtle comments and reflections, some of which are found on consoles or datapads. There are some NPCs that do put you on a pedestal, but very few, and usually warranted if you look at the situation from their viewpoint and not your own. Honestly, in a real-life emergency, most folks want someone else to lead ("lead" I'm referring to - not "help"). I've stopped at major car accidents, still waiting on emergency response crews, with large crowds and I was immediately able to take a lead role quickly and easily. That happened because some people are just scared. Some don't know what to do, no matter how much they want to help. Some with plenty of training or at least some skill are still quick to release responsibility because they just don't want it for a variety of reasons I won't get into in this thread. People generally want to help and do what they can, but they would PREFER if someone else was leading. It's a quite frequent and very natural response for most folks. There are always those who are prideful and overconfident, usually the dangerous ones you DON'T want leading. But thankfully those personalities are not the norm (and the game shows you what happens when those people try to take charge). Here we have a situation where everyone has been thrust into an extreme, emergency, life and death situation for tens of thousands of different life forms. You arrive into a scene already characterized by chaos, loss of hope (that's a big thing, even in real-life, that greatly affects perspective), filled with many people in leadership who weren't the original leaders (due to the first Scourge encounter). Additionally, two key figures sparked the reason this entire journey took place, and one of them was the Pathfinder. Notice I didn't say Alec Ryder. I said Pathfinder. Only a few knew the human Pathfinder as the real Alec outside of the title. Most of them just knew him as the Pathfinder and looked up to that "role" (as was the case with the other Arks and species towards their "Pathfinder"). When you first step into the role of Pathfinder, just like in real life emergencies, I would expect people to quickly turn over the responsibility to you. Not because of your experience level. But because ⚽ the vast majority don't want that responsibility, even if they act like they might, and 🏈 they have no hope at this moment and the name "Pathfinder" provides a glimmer of it. They aren't looking to you as an experienced hero. You are a scapegoat for responsibility for some, while for others you have the only recognizable title that everyone knows and has some measure of respect for, especially given the breakdown in leadership most people have seen at the beginning of the game. Don't forget Ryder is not without a lot of experience and training in his/her own right. And finally, you are in a small group of people overall. Remember, most folks are still in cryo. The game has ups and downs as far as people's perspectives on your abilities and "hero" status as the story progresses. And as others have mentioned, even in the end you get comments about you retiring your duties (now that the hard part is done of course) and letting them take over their areas. Because I don't want to give away important details, I won't discuss the existing alien life's perspectives on you, but under the circumstances and given those individuals collective experiences prior to your arrival, I think their varied opinions of you make sense as well in the grand scheme of things. For me... I like everyday heroes. Flawed or not. And I think they struck a fairly good balance with the idea in the game. You do have to play more than just the main story and you need to have a LOT of conversations with a LOT of people, including primary, secondary and one-off characters, to really flesh this out properly - otherwise your viewpoint will be incomplete. Will they name a school after you? Probably. But most folks are going to get on with their lives, and what you did will become history more quickly than you might think. The real joy though is the respect and admiration you EARN from your crew (depending on how you play). They don't "heroify" you IMO. But by the end of the game, they wouldn't want to be anywhere else than exploring the new galaxy by your side. That was very satisfying and humbling at the same time. So, how heroic did I expect Ryder to be? I didn't actually have any expectations, coming into the game fresh with no history of ME. But the tone the game struck with the subject was handled pretty well in my opinion.

@VitesseLumiere wrote: Some with plenty of training or at least some skill are still quick to release responsibility because they just don't want it for a variety of reasons I won't get into in this thread. People generally want to help and do what they can, but they would PREFER if someone else was leading. It's a quite frequent and very natural response for most folks. I can attest to this. My mom wears many hats in her job as a RN at a small town hospital yet the one role she absolutely refuses to take on? Charge nurse. Because she doesn't want the responsibility, even if it pays significantly more, even as she claims she could really use the money. I asked her why, she said because she then has to "deal with upper management and government oversight committees." She just wants to do her job, she doesn't want to have to justify choices to bureaucrats who, in her view, have the power to ruin her life but don't have the power to practice medicine. We see this with Ryder having to justify choices to Addison and Tann, and that feeling everyone gets of wanting to reach through the monitor to strangle both of them? Yeah. That's all of you not wanting Ryder's job either. 😉

I don't think it is trust as much as it is desperation and seeing no other options. They tried it alone and got no where at all. Ryder as a hero or not so much? Hmm. You know something? I don't know. I am not blaming the writing for this or anything but I never felt attached to my Ryder enough to think about it and I'm uncertain as to why. I am oddly indifferent to him. Maybe too often he doesn't say what I'd actually want him to say? I don't know. I guess he's as heroic as he needs to be and I know that sounds like I'm copping out on the answer but I'm just going to say he's very heroic very fast because he needs to be as his mission is essentially to save every race that came from the Milky Way so the usual slower progression into hero isn't possible here. Okay, you guys just witnessed me thinking out loud. I hope we all feel closer now. Lol!

@IIIPripyaTIII wrote: I expected him to be just a grunt, but he can hold himself well. Still, it doesn't stop me of wanting to be Alec Ryder instead. Yup, if I am to play Mass Effect, 1st choice would be Shep, 2nd Alec. Ok lets take Ryder out from Mass Effect and put this character with his personality onto another game, perhaps he wouldnt have such large shoes to fill, less pressure to perform so to say. He may even be a better rogue class in another game with his soft approach to things. Personally I prefer my protagonist like Shepard, Alec Ryder, like the Witcher. Man's man... He can still be a level 1 rookie but the "Man's Man" personality is still there. "Soldiers like the Commander are rare. Men like Shepard... even more rare."... David Anderson.

How HEROIC you expected Ryder to be?

29 Replies

Anonymous
9 years ago
I think the trust did come a little too fast, I might have attributed it just to the pathfinder title though. However, I wasn't expecting to be in the spotlight immediately either. Trying to go back into the mindset EA built up for us before the game went live, all the fluff videos, the Andromeda Initiative briefings, I expected sibling Ryder to be put into some kind of junior position to his/her father, and to work cooperatively with the other Ryder child and eventually something would happen that would end up with your character earning being put in charge. Just didn't expect it to be by the end of the training wheels mission. I expected more of the father's shadow to weighing over the character, and perhaps it would have, if more of the people that worked with and knew the father personally, had survived on the Nexus.

So really, the whole twist right at the beginning of the game, broke what my expectations for how heroic Ryder should have been.
JucieN7
9 years ago
I expected Ryder to not being heroic at all. Like a college kid :D

And I have to agree with you, that they got trust from others too quick. Sure, they are the pathfinder, but despite the harsh welcome from Addison and Tann at the beginning there was nothing like "how should a college boy/girl help us" kind of dialogue. They are the pathfinders, but they are young and not especially educated for that job and have to decide almost verything. Imagine your 22yo self or someone of this age getting all this responsibilty!

Don't get me wrong. I like Ryder. They have potential, but it should have been harder for them to earn trust. The only one where this was a matter was Efvra and that was not because of Ryder being a young substitute pathfinder but because Ryder being an alien.

This is one of the story elements they rushed and that make it all feel hollow and incomplete
chrissyce1123
9 years ago
I think they did a pretty good job. Most people on the Nexus don't even mention that your the pathfinder. The scientists only care that your connected to SAM, heck, even Reyes only cares about SAM in the beginning. Actually, most people seem to only care about SAM and not you as a person. Your just the means to let them access SAM. Suvi greets SAM before she greets Ryder on the Tempest. Addison never seems to really trust you and only likes you because you annoy Tann. Kesh will tell you to slow down and speaks very plainly to you. Tann knows his welfare is completely tied to yours. Only the people you save, seem to gush over you. Even the people who run Meridian seem to think your time for being important is over. I think one says that your job is done pathfinder. Does this mean we can get a dlc that allows off to run off with PeeBee and explore to our heart's content? Maybe we can start our own farm and have a family? It would be great if BioWare welcomed the modding community.
Tuinbonen
9 years ago
I expected him to be just a grunt, but he can hold himself well. Still, it doesn't stop me of wanting to be Alec Ryder instead.
Anonymous
9 years ago
I don't think it is trust as much as it is desperation and seeing no other options. They tried it alone and got no where at all.

Ryder as a hero or not so much? Hmm. You know something? I don't know. I am not blaming the writing for this or anything but I never felt attached to my Ryder enough to think about it and I'm uncertain as to why.

I am oddly indifferent to him. Maybe too often he doesn't say what I'd actually want him to say? I don't know.

I guess he's as heroic as he needs to be and I know that sounds like I'm copping out on the answer but I'm just going to say he's very heroic very fast because he needs to be as his mission is essentially to save every race that came from the Milky Way so the usual slower progression into hero isn't possible here.

Okay, you guys just witnessed me thinking out loud. I hope we all feel closer now. Lol!
VladVonCastein
9 years ago
@IIIPripyaTIII wrote:

I expected him to be just a grunt, but he can hold himself well. Still, it doesn't stop me of wanting to be Alec Ryder instead.

Yup, if I am to play Mass Effect, 1st choice would be Shep, 2nd Alec. Ok lets take Ryder out from Mass Effect and put this character with his personality onto another game, perhaps he wouldnt have such large shoes to fill, less pressure to perform so to say. He may even be a better rogue class in another game with his soft approach to things. Personally I prefer my protagonist like Shepard, Alec Ryder, like the Witcher. Man's man... He can still be a level 1 rookie but the "Man's Man" personality is still there.

"Soldiers like the Commander are rare. Men like Shepard... even more rare."... David Anderson.
Anonymous
9 years ago
@PretzleMe

We almost started romancing between ourselves to help their writers get it right.

@VladVonCastein

I oddly feel connected to Scott, because I'm normally a 'nice guy'. But surely, many things I would still do differently, perhaps even with some kicking a$$. I believe in tough love, kick the face but support not to fall later, things like that.
VladVonCastein
9 years ago
@PandaTar

Lol, in real life I am more scott than shep as well, heck who am I kidding, I am more like henchman#4 that got shot in the head cause he's too slow to duck behind cover. The first Kett you see in the game probably lasted longer than I ever woould. If I am a character in ME, I would probably end up a merchant scrounging for a living that eventually got "reaperfied". But since I am not, am the guy typing on a keyboard and dreaming that I am the hero of citadel and the one that hotties like Miranda, liara, jack, would even look my way... I want to play Shepard. Not henchman#4, not the merchant that died, not Scott Ryder... I wanna play Shepard. LOL as honest as it gets my friend.
JucieN7
9 years ago
@VladVonCastein wrote:

@PandaTar

Lol, in real life I am more scott than shep as well, heck who am I kidding, I am more like henchman#4 that got shot in the head cause he's too slow to duck behind cover. The first Kett you see in the game probably lasted longer than I ever woould. If I am a character in ME, I would probably end up a merchant scrounging for a living that eventually got "reaperfied". But since I am not, am the guy typing on a keyboard and dreaming that I am the hero of citadel and the one that hotties like Miranda, liara, jack, would even look my way... I want to play Shepard. Not henchman#4, not the merchant that died, not Scott Ryder... I wanna play Shepard. LOL as honest as it gets my friend.

I relate to this so much!

I once broke my toe while sun bathing...so imagine me having to save the galaxy! :D I need a badass character to do it for me!
Anonymous
9 years ago
JucieN7 wrote:
I once broke my toe while sun bathing...

That's a feat. Our Ryders cannot even come close. ^_^

Well, I'm powerfully built, so sometimes I expect my badass protagonist to be a little sturdier too. Ryder looks so squishy. But as far as personality goes, I'm very akin.