I forgot to ask this before. To me, and when we were being befried about the game, Ryder was supposed to come from the unknown, and then, slowly climb up to the Heroic aspect, not really in the same level of Shepard, but on the right form around it. To some people, he never got too heroic, a simple shadow of Shepard's. To me, however, he (or she, sorry, I forget to point it out) gets the spotlight only too fast. People simply trust you too fast, you glow too fast, thing feel rushed. Easy. So, what do you think? Is Ryder too flashy or too dim?

i can't speak to a male ryder, because i started an infiltrator character with one before i figured out how much i dislike their version of sniper rifles... now with sara ryder, i thought her tone fit her character, and in my opinion she could sound kind of basa**-ish with the right dialogue choices. but, mainly my issue with the character, revolved around the spoken dialogue not matching what i selected in the dialogue wheel, and i too had moments where i thought... did she really just say that? *facepalm* as for people starting to trust you... for the most part they don't at first. they only start trusting you when you actually start accomplishing tasks (or that's what it seems like to me). and you have to remember the nexus was a few months form total failure/death when you arrived with the hyperion. a little success in the face of total annihilation goes a long way. IMHO, you folks might just be a tad too critical about that initial buildup of trust, notice i said might. ---edit typos

I have to say I like how respectful everyone has stayed in this topic. It was an interesting one from the OP and I've enjoyed many of the responses and perspectives. I may bring a couple unique perspectives to the table, so thought I'd jump in and share. First, I haven't played the first ME games. I know. The massive sighs most of you are breathing right now, coupled with an overwhelming desire to tell me how much I need to play one or more of the older games that are so nostalgic for so many of you 🙂. Second, as a first responder in real life, I've been in situations from minor car accidents and workplace situations to more major situations. This gives me a real-life perspective on how people ACTUALLY behave in real emergency situations. Having said that, I felt they handled everything pretty good in my opinion (not saying perfect, but my complaints are fairly small). I never personally felt like Ryder was "heroified" at all really. Even the primary antagonist realizes the mistake of his own view of Ryder, and as others have already stated, most NPCs, including other leaders and your own crew, realize and comment upon the fact that SAM, not you, is the real power behind your abilities as Pathfinder. Some do so directly, some indirectly with subtle comments and reflections, some of which are found on consoles or datapads. There are some NPCs that do put you on a pedestal, but very few, and usually warranted if you look at the situation from their viewpoint and not your own. Honestly, in a real-life emergency, most folks want someone else to lead ("lead" I'm referring to - not "help"). I've stopped at major car accidents, still waiting on emergency response crews, with large crowds and I was immediately able to take a lead role quickly and easily. That happened because some people are just scared. Some don't know what to do, no matter how much they want to help. Some with plenty of training or at least some skill are still quick to release responsibility because they just don't want it for a variety of reasons I won't get into in this thread. People generally want to help and do what they can, but they would PREFER if someone else was leading. It's a quite frequent and very natural response for most folks. There are always those who are prideful and overconfident, usually the dangerous ones you DON'T want leading. But thankfully those personalities are not the norm (and the game shows you what happens when those people try to take charge). Here we have a situation where everyone has been thrust into an extreme, emergency, life and death situation for tens of thousands of different life forms. You arrive into a scene already characterized by chaos, loss of hope (that's a big thing, even in real-life, that greatly affects perspective), filled with many people in leadership who weren't the original leaders (due to the first Scourge encounter). Additionally, two key figures sparked the reason this entire journey took place, and one of them was the Pathfinder. Notice I didn't say Alec Ryder. I said Pathfinder. Only a few knew the human Pathfinder as the real Alec outside of the title. Most of them just knew him as the Pathfinder and looked up to that "role" (as was the case with the other Arks and species towards their "Pathfinder"). When you first step into the role of Pathfinder, just like in real life emergencies, I would expect people to quickly turn over the responsibility to you. Not because of your experience level. But because ⚽ the vast majority don't want that responsibility, even if they act like they might, and 🏈 they have no hope at this moment and the name "Pathfinder" provides a glimmer of it. They aren't looking to you as an experienced hero. You are a scapegoat for responsibility for some, while for others you have the only recognizable title that everyone knows and has some measure of respect for, especially given the breakdown in leadership most people have seen at the beginning of the game. Don't forget Ryder is not without a lot of experience and training in his/her own right. And finally, you are in a small group of people overall. Remember, most folks are still in cryo. The game has ups and downs as far as people's perspectives on your abilities and "hero" status as the story progresses. And as others have mentioned, even in the end you get comments about you retiring your duties (now that the hard part is done of course) and letting them take over their areas. Because I don't want to give away important details, I won't discuss the existing alien life's perspectives on you, but under the circumstances and given those individuals collective experiences prior to your arrival, I think their varied opinions of you make sense as well in the grand scheme of things. For me... I like everyday heroes. Flawed or not. And I think they struck a fairly good balance with the idea in the game. You do have to play more than just the main story and you need to have a LOT of conversations with a LOT of people, including primary, secondary and one-off characters, to really flesh this out properly - otherwise your viewpoint will be incomplete. Will they name a school after you? Probably. But most folks are going to get on with their lives, and what you did will become history more quickly than you might think. The real joy though is the respect and admiration you EARN from your crew (depending on how you play). They don't "heroify" you IMO. But by the end of the game, they wouldn't want to be anywhere else than exploring the new galaxy by your side. That was very satisfying and humbling at the same time. So, how heroic did I expect Ryder to be? I didn't actually have any expectations, coming into the game fresh with no history of ME. But the tone the game struck with the subject was handled pretty well in my opinion.

@VitesseLumiere wrote: Some with plenty of training or at least some skill are still quick to release responsibility because they just don't want it for a variety of reasons I won't get into in this thread. People generally want to help and do what they can, but they would PREFER if someone else was leading. It's a quite frequent and very natural response for most folks. I can attest to this. My mom wears many hats in her job as a RN at a small town hospital yet the one role she absolutely refuses to take on? Charge nurse. Because she doesn't want the responsibility, even if it pays significantly more, even as she claims she could really use the money. I asked her why, she said because she then has to "deal with upper management and government oversight committees." She just wants to do her job, she doesn't want to have to justify choices to bureaucrats who, in her view, have the power to ruin her life but don't have the power to practice medicine. We see this with Ryder having to justify choices to Addison and Tann, and that feeling everyone gets of wanting to reach through the monitor to strangle both of them? Yeah. That's all of you not wanting Ryder's job either. 😉

I don't think it is trust as much as it is desperation and seeing no other options. They tried it alone and got no where at all. Ryder as a hero or not so much? Hmm. You know something? I don't know. I am not blaming the writing for this or anything but I never felt attached to my Ryder enough to think about it and I'm uncertain as to why. I am oddly indifferent to him. Maybe too often he doesn't say what I'd actually want him to say? I don't know. I guess he's as heroic as he needs to be and I know that sounds like I'm copping out on the answer but I'm just going to say he's very heroic very fast because he needs to be as his mission is essentially to save every race that came from the Milky Way so the usual slower progression into hero isn't possible here. Okay, you guys just witnessed me thinking out loud. I hope we all feel closer now. Lol!

@IIIPripyaTIII wrote: I expected him to be just a grunt, but he can hold himself well. Still, it doesn't stop me of wanting to be Alec Ryder instead. Yup, if I am to play Mass Effect, 1st choice would be Shep, 2nd Alec. Ok lets take Ryder out from Mass Effect and put this character with his personality onto another game, perhaps he wouldnt have such large shoes to fill, less pressure to perform so to say. He may even be a better rogue class in another game with his soft approach to things. Personally I prefer my protagonist like Shepard, Alec Ryder, like the Witcher. Man's man... He can still be a level 1 rookie but the "Man's Man" personality is still there. "Soldiers like the Commander are rare. Men like Shepard... even more rare."... David Anderson.

How HEROIC you expected Ryder to be?

29 Replies

Anonymous
9 years ago
@PandaTar

"...We almost started romancing between ourselves to help their writers get it right..."

Lol, very true so you seeing me think out loud is just par for the course at this point.

----------

@VladVonCastein

"...Personally I prefer my protagonist like Shepard, Alec Ryder, like the Witcher..."

100% with you on this one. Not saying this is what has made it difficult for me to connect with Ryder. Could be because I'm old and he isn't, lol. Shepard felt more my age (at that time) bah. I don't know. I'll keep thinking on this profound question of PandaTar's.

----------

@JucieN7

"...I once broke my toe while sun bathing...so imagine me having to save the galaxy!..."

Lol, I am sorry to laugh at your pain... but in my defense, this was hilarious. Still, don't sell yourself short. I'm sure you could still save the galaxy. You just need really thick armor and not to hurt yourself putting it on. :P
JucieN7
9 years ago
@PandaTar wrote:

JucieN7 wrote:
I once broke my toe while sun bathing...

That's a feat. Our Ryders cannot even come close. ^_^

Well, I'm powerfully built, so sometimes I expect my badass protagonist to be a little sturdier too. Ryder looks so squishy. But as far as personality goes, I'm very akin.

Well thank you :D

Regarding Ryders personality I guess I am also akin. At least in parts. I like that they are so kind and supportive to people in need but also self-assured enough to prevail in important situations.
JucieN7
9 years ago
@PretzleMe wrote:

@JucieN7

"...I once broke my toe while sun bathing...so imagine me having to save the galaxy!..."

Lol, I am sorry to laugh at your pain... but in my defense, this was hilarious. Still, don't sell yourself short. I'm sure you could still save the galaxy. You just need really thick armor and not to hurt yourself putting it on. :P

Don't worry I always laugh about it. It's a running gag among my friends :D
Well I could save the galaxy with a really thick armor and a krogan on my side, I guess!

Or maybe I am just a sidekick and would distract the enemys from the real heroes. The Ryders could kill the Archon easily when I distract him by falling over my own feet!
VladVonCastein
9 years ago
I need an AI buffing me up... As I am right now, well let's just say I prefer the reapers to the kett... The reapers would harvest me regardless... The Kett on the other hand would probably think I am not worth exalting.
Anonymous
9 years ago
i can't speak to a male ryder, because i started an infiltrator character with one before i figured out how much i dislike their version of sniper rifles... now with sara ryder, i thought her tone fit her character, and in my opinion she could sound kind of basa**-ish with the right dialogue choices. but, mainly my issue with the character, revolved around the spoken dialogue not matching what i selected in the dialogue wheel, and i too had moments where i thought... did she really just say that? *facepalm*

as for people starting to trust you... for the most part they don't at first. they only start trusting you when you actually start accomplishing tasks (or that's what it seems like to me). and you have to remember the nexus was a few months form total failure/death when you arrived with the hyperion. a little success in the face of total annihilation goes a long way. IMHO, you folks might just be a tad too critical about that initial buildup of trust, notice i said might.

---edit

typos
Anonymous
9 years ago
I would hsve liked to see more hiccups and less trust from people.

In a way, the trust kinda made sense. It was a dubious trust - they needed the help so didn't really have a lot of choice.

Many of the Angara seemed to trust too quickly, aside from that one movement thay didn't like aliens. Considering what the Kett did to them, I am surprised there was not more ongoing general hostility from more Angara civvies.
Anonymous
9 years ago
@Nykara360 wrote:

I would hsve liked to see more hiccups and less trust from people.

In a way, the trust kinda made sense. It was a dubious trust - they needed the help so didn't really have a lot of choice.

Many of the Angara seemed to trust too quickly, aside from that one movement thay didn't like aliens. Considering what the Kett did to them, I am surprised there was not more ongoing general hostility from more Angara civvies.

What kind of hiccups? I'm just curious. Do you mean for us? Like you think things were too easy for us as Ryder or something else?

And I agree that the Angaran seem a bit too quick to trust but at the same time, they're aliens in another galaxy so while it may make no sense to us... they can think entirely different form us in that regards.

But, the way they initially come off, it did seem like they'd be typical in that thought process only to go, "You helped me clean my bathroom, I trust you completely now."

Lol, so who knows?
Anonymous
9 years ago
@PretzleMe wrote:

@Nykara360 wrote:

I would hsve liked to see more hiccups and less trust from people.

In a way, the trust kinda made sense. It was a dubious trust - they needed the help so didn't really have a lot of choice.

Many of the Angara seemed to trust too quickly, aside from that one movement thay didn't like aliens. Considering what the Kett did to them, I am surprised there was not more ongoing general hostility from more Angara civvies.

What kind of hiccups? I'm just curious. Do you mean for us? Like you think things were too easy for us as Ryder or something else?

And I agree that the Angaran seem a bit too quick to trust but at the same time, they're aliens in another galaxy so while it may make no sense to us... they can think entirely different form us in that regards.

But, the way they initially come off, it did seem like they'd be typical in that thought process only to go, "You helped me clean my bathroom, I trust you completely now."

Lol, so who knows?

you do actually have to be rather trustworthy to clean someone's bathroom, no?
pyrion
9 years ago
@PandaTar wrote:

I forgot to ask this before.

To me, and when we were being befried about the game, Ryder was supposed to come from the unknown, and then, slowly climb up to the Heroic aspect, not really in the same level of Shepard, but on the right form around it.

To some people, he never got too heroic, a simple shadow of Shepard's. To me, however, he (or she, sorry, I forget to point it out) gets the spotlight only too fast. People simply trust you too fast, you glow too fast, thing feel rushed. Easy.

So, what do you think? Is Ryder too flashy or too dim?

Frankly, most of the hard work is actually SAM's doing. If the Remnant had decent WiFi instead of doing everything via Bluetooth the game would be done from start to finish in about ten minutes. 😉

That having been said, it's not to much people trust you too fast as, well, Colonel Carter from Stargate SG-1 puts it "You blow up one sun and suddenly everybody expects you to walk on water." Ryder works what amounts to a miracle when the Nexus' first two tries blow up in their faces, and suddenly you're irreplaceable, because your connection to SAM makes you the only person capable of doing the job. You can even point out to the Initiative leadership how it's suddenly valuable for them to be your friend, if you take the cynical attitude towards their political maneuvering.

Frankly, I think part of the reason why, once you prove capable of actually turning things around, the Initiative as a whole is willing to put all of their faith and trust in you to get things done, is because nobody else, save Cora, really wants the job, and it's probably not even the pressure from having the fate of the Initiative riding on your back. It's being merged with an AI, which still scares the * out of mostly everyone. Wait 'til they find out your SAM is jailbroken.

As for how "heroic" Ryder is versus my expectations? My opinion on this is colored by all of the pre-release hype that more-or-less spelled out the fact that Ryder is new to this, and throughout the story, it shows. Ryder doesn't start out as a hero like Shepard does, so, in Ryder's own words, we all get "front row seats to me winging it." Which fits, because again, all the Pathfinder is really needed for is to survive everything long enough for SAM to do his thing.
jpcerutti1
9 years ago
@PandaTar wrote:

I forgot to ask this before.

To me, and when we were being befried about the game, Ryder was supposed to come from the unknown, and then, slowly climb up to the Heroic aspect, not really in the same level of Shepard, but on the right form around it.

To some people, he never got too heroic, a simple shadow of Shepard's. To me, however, he (or she, sorry, I forget to point it out) gets the spotlight only too fast. People simply trust you too fast, you glow too fast, thing feel rushed. Easy.

So, what do you think? Is Ryder too flashy or too dim?

People do not trust you too fast. Literally nobody respects you or will give you any benefit of the doubt. The best you get all game is "give the guy a chance" and "at least we didn't die" whenl you have proven yourself, multiple times, to each individual person. However they do force you to make important decisions too fast so they can give you a hard time about whatever it is you do. I'm not given the option to really form him into anything. No matter what he does as the story progresses they make sure to judge you with equal weight given to your detractors. I am simply picking who will be friends and who will be enemies in this first installment.

You don't even get to build a soild crew. Even in deciding *the final mission* your crew can do nothing but argue and don't look to you for your opinion or for an answer. You govern like Tann. How many things have they watched me accomplish by that point? Maybe that is supposed to be the achievement, that post Meridian they gel as a team and will follow you, but since the plotline ends there you don't get to feel that IF it exists. Sure, they congratulate you, but they have done that many times... when you do what they wanted. I have completed all of their "loyalty" missions by that point, with nothing to show for it but unlocked skills?

Honestly, at the end of the game, save your romance option, who do you think really trusts you? I have to personally intervene and fix the problems of each individual in the game so they will trust me - but only until I make a decision they don't like? That's a hundred thousand never ending fetch quests.

"And we didn't die" is where you start AND where you finish.

I am the most heroic mobile SAM platform for fetch quests there ever was - until the next time I die when I can easily be replaced.

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How HEROIC you expected Ryder to be?

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