I Like Sloane

@Kondaru

Drugs-

Trust Reyes or don't, but when he is in charge if he wanted them gone...

This is not exactly true: Reyes never wanted to "govern". He is an opportunist, and he usually works with criminals (in a ~similar way that Vetra does).  He opposes Sloane, Roekaar fanatics, and other threats - but he is not truly a *vigiliante*. He is not interested in making laws, he is not interested in reducing crime. He simply dislikes when people are mistreated, when honest merchants and craftsmen cannot get rich, when society decays... And even so, it is probably only because poor society makes his illicit trade more difficult.

He is obviously not deprived of positive emotions and goals (after all he helped Dr. Nakamoto with his clinic, right?), but he is far from being a do-gooder, and he is DEFINITELY not a paragon of justice.

Reyes is not going to fight pirates, cannibals, or drug dealers unless they become a real threat (or unless they get rich themselves). It would not surprise me if he allowed some low-lives to produce and deal drugs. On the other hand I would be very unhappy if *his own men* produced and dealt drugs.

Your whole argument so far has been Sloane is a drug dealer, Reyes would never do such a thing, Reyes is solving problems because they hurt people, not because it makes him look good and Sloane look bad, Reyes has people tortured and killed because he's a good guy and they are bad guys, etc. etc. etc. If that is true, then he should be getting rid of the drug dealers, especially since they cause "people [to be] mistreated, ... honest merchants and craftsmen [to] not get rich, ... society [to] decay... "

Side note: I have yet to see Verta form a massive covert para-military criminal organization and try and take over control of at least one planet, for nefarious purposes or not. Reyes and Palpatine don't want to govern, but they will do it because it is "necessary" and possibly "the people demand it"😉👿

Guerilla War-

Every Guerilla organization claims it either is an independent country or government or represents an independent country or government.

Collective does not.

Who is in charge when Sloane dies then? Nevertheless, the Collective recruiter does sell them as a large scale criminal enterprise, so if you want to go that route it is not a political uprising but a gang war, and there is no moral superiority or justification to be found, just thugs struggling to control money and power.

Torture-

You apparently haven't found the torture room out in the Badlands yet. Definitely the Collective, definitely a lot more than a beating. Go find it and get back to me

You are right about the room - I have seen it. It was used for interrogations. There is even a datapad there that explains that the last "victim" was an Outcast pirate that captured and killed one of the Collective agents. Collective wanted to learn about their friend, as they hoped to release her.

It does not surprise me that interrogation room looks scary - actually that is the whole point. You are right that it is another example where Collective agents gave a thorough beating to someone - but once again, it was administered to Outcast criminal rather than to civvies. So it is still a bit better in my eyes than what Outcast do

Ripping out fingernails and blowtorches are generally considered torture where I come from, I'm sorry if that isn't true for you. They have been doing this a lot, to a lot of people and mostly stopped this time to go escape an Outcast patrol. Granted, beating civvies is uncool, but the only times I remember seeing it happen was when prisoners were being rounded up for exile, so there is a decent chance that the ones being beaten were resisting arrest

Also, on behalf of Outcast Command, The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves!

Fewer people know the story of when David grew up, became king, and had an adult son of his own. (...) I feel like somewhere in there is an analogy to Reyes

It is a nice parallel, but I believe it matches Spender rather than Reyes. Do You rally think that Reyes stops Sloane from helping others? Like, I do not know... From beating civvies and selling drugs?   ;-)

Do I think Reyes goes up to people and tells them things like "Hey, don't ask Sloane to help your (druggie) brother. She doesn't care, but I'll see what I can do" or " Don't ask Sloane to deal with these murders. She's too busy, but I'll look into it", etc.? Yeah, I think he might. Plus, people were starting to blame the Rokaar murders on the Collective, and that's bad PR

Her final option is to give him to a representative of a government she is still more or less at war with who shows up and promptly demands she hand him over.

As far as I can tell Sloane is only at war with the Kett. And possibly with the Nexus...

[Facepalm] And Ryder represents/works for whom?

Theoretically she could turn him over to Aya, but she doesn't have a map and the local Angara want Aya to But Out (see Kedara intel in Resistance HQ).

Uh... That is really, really stretched. Sloane know about Resistance, and actually Ryder himself/herself is eager to take Vehn Terev to Aya. So... Nope, there is no reason NOT TO give Vehn Terev to the Resistance.

Kedara is a sovereign nation that declared its independence from Aya and the Resistance BEFORE the exiles arrived. The Resistance is trying to infiltrate Kedara, but pretty much everyone is telling them to go to hell. Ryder works for the Nexus, who the exiles declared independence from. So what exactly is Sloane's motivation to favor them over her own citizens?

Vehn Terev is a traitor and a spy and admits it. By the laws of war he can be killed on the spot even outside of pirate colonies.

Uh... What law of war? Is there some intergalactic law that binds Milky Way species and Angara alike? Is it some custom on Earth that government of one country is allowed to kill subjects of another country because they broke some laws or regulations in this other country? Has Vehn Terev broken any of the Kadara laws? Or has the Resistance or Moshae herself - the only parties that were betrayed - asked for Vehn Terev to be killed?

Ummm... yes to pretty much all of it. The Geneva Conventions are international agreements signed by pretty much every nation on Earth and represent the laws of war for humanity. The Red Cross/Crescent have a lot of information on them on their website. Undoubtedly the Citadel Council had their own version, but it is unlikely to be significantly different. The Angara probably had something similar as well, but it has probably been lost due to the Scourge and the Kett. Nevertheless, the Resistance recognized his actions as being punishable by death.

If you go to another country you are subject to their laws and punishments, even execution, although your own government will often work to try and limit those punishments or get you sent home. North Korea is currently arresting Americans, probably for being American, but charging them with breaking the law, so, legally, there is nothing the US can do about it.

Vehn Terev is a spy and a collaborator serving the kett, which makes him punishable in Kedara, where the kett are the enemy. He is an officer operating without uniform in a foreign nation without that nation's permission, which makes him a spy and punishable by execution. He has also targeted a figure who belongs to all Angara, regardless of nation of residence, much like the Pope or Queen of England, and is thus arguably punishable by any nation that can catch him by virtue of his being an enemy of Angara-kind.

Just as a note, Evfra was trying to bring Vehn Terev home, execute him, and sweep everything under the rug, kind of like Sloane gets accused of doing, except the Moshe busts him and rubs it in his face

High Noon/Base-

Robin Hood has never shot the Sherriff in the back in any portrayal I've seen.

There is a nice serie by Angus Donald, in which Robin Hood seems almost to be a head of mafia.

But You are right.

So let me give You another example: Han Solo shot Greedo in a "treacherous" way, which is even more evident in the original (not enhanced) version of "New Hope". Is Han Solo so bad?   ;-)

I love Han Solo, but for most portrayed as being self-centered and ruthless for most of a New Hope.

I would also argue there is a difference between looking a guy in the eye who has tracked you down and has a gun pointed at you and shooting him is a lot different than inviting him to the cantina and having Chewy hiding in the corner waiting to shoot him in the back