Liam..
The poor guy, so many seem to not like him. So what I want to know is who out there does like him and what you like about him.. Haters can stay away please! Just Liam positive here. One thread in wh...
Forum Discussion
@rugster wrote:Yeh when Liam says his memorable line, it made me burst out laughing and surely that's the aim of that line. So how can anyone hate it? Doesn't make sence.
??What memorable line??? I honestly don't remember any real good laughing lines from him. Drack, Vetra and even Cora I could fairly easily relate too and understand their character.....Liam, sorry can't. The thing about Liam that really irks me is he was in crisis response, that is the one place that cool heads and solid rational decisions HAVE to be made 100% of the time or people die. Yet time and time again, Liam doesn't live up to his backstory, he is emotional in decision making, he isn't to my mind rational in those decisions and not very cool or collected under stress. To me his backstory doesn't fit him AT ALL, and that annoys the dog poo out of me when it comes to characters. The other thing that really irks me about his character is after every bad decision, Ryder basically goes....UHH, ok, whatever...you can't really tell him off, you can't correct him for going AROUND YOU...not so much around higher ups, but AROUND YOU!!! He is pulling BS behind YOUR back and then you have to deal with the fallout or * from it, and you can't do a dang thing about it to him.
Things I like about him.....
1) He doesn't shoot me in the back during a mission......
2)
3)
When I find more I will post them.....😎
I think what a lot fail to realize is the fact that the Pathfinder team arent actually under the Pathfinders orders per say. Its not an alliance military team its a civilian one. They are expected to assist the Pathfinder when asked but outside of that, they have their own asigned tasks to perform without having to run and ask permission to do it. They are supposed to just do it and then request back-up from the other team members when its needed.
Its a big difference to an alliance military ship and crew like the Normandy was. Even a big difference to the SR2 when all crew where specifically told to follow Shepards orders.
Each member of the Pathfinding team had a set job already assigned to them to just do when not required by the Pathfinder his/herself and there is the difference. Sara didn't have to contact her Dad to ask permission to scout once they landed on the planet she was just expected to do her job.
Believe it or not, Liam was just doing his job, forging relationships with species and between colonies and used his own judgment on how best to achieve that. He also wasn't wrong, his instincts about those people were correct. The pirates timing was just bad luck, one didn't have anything to do with the other he just thought it was possible, so went to his team for backup feeling it was needed at that point in time. In doing so he further cemented those alliances as well.
@Nykara360 wrote:Believe it or not, Liam was just doing his job, forging relationships with species and between colonies and used his own judgment on how best to achieve that. He also wasn't wrong, his instincts about those people were correct. The pirates timing was just bad luck, one didn't have anything to do with the other he just thought it was possible, so went to his team for backup feeling it was needed at that point in time. In doing so he further cemented those alliances as well.
I didn't know that this was Liam's job. I got the impression he was supposed to handle security, while Cora was XO, Vetra was supplies, etc. Did it say anywhere that Liam was the diplomat?
I do like Liam. He's a friendly, gung-ho guy. I even appreciate his initiative and found his loyalty mission to be one of the most entertaining bits of the game.
That being said, I don't feel like he fits with the Nexus leadership's Initiative. In many ways I think that Liam would be a better fit doing his thing at Prodromos or Kedara, possibly Elaaden. Certainly I wouldn't be too upset if things went that way, and I suspect that he and most of the crew would feel the same way. If Jaal gets upset I'm sure Peebee would be more than happy to spend some time with him and cheer him up.
Actually, they are.
@Nykara360 wrote:
I think what a lot fail to realize is the fact that the Pathfinder team arent actually under the Pathfinders orders per say.
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That is made pretty clear by Cora as (Surprise) Lima says that the Team "calls the shots" and she responded "Actually the Pathfinder calls the shots, just to be clear."
There are also other occasions were it is made clear that the Pathfinder de facto is the commanding officer of the Pathfinder-team and while the AI is in fact civilian, there is also a clear chain of command inside a civilian organisation, it has to be, especially considering the situation they are in.
All my problems with Liam are already summarized by @mcsupersport so I leave it there to just say that I also miss the opportunity tell him what I really think about his actions.
That is in fact one of my greatest points of criticism at MEA, that I often can't react the way I want to react when it comes to crewmembers. Same with Drack later on as I saved the Salarian Pathfinder.
I have one HUGE like, bordering love, when it comes to Liam:
When he is getting pummeled by Kett or pretty much anyone else that wants to kill him, while I stand by the Nomad and just watch. Ahhhh... that bubbles up a wellspring of joy in my heart.
@Nykara360 wrote:I think what a lot fail to realize is the fact that the Pathfinder team arent actually under the Pathfinders orders per say. Its not an alliance military team its a civilian one.
I'm pretty sure just like real life, this isn't valid. A captain of a ship is still the captain, and they give the orders - just because civvy's volunteered doesn't change that - even on luxury cruises irl, if the Captain wants everybody in their cabins... well guess what... you're going to the cabin or you're getting arrested. If you go on fishing boat, guess who's in charge? Certainly not you because you're not military.
I did service for 2 years in my nation's navy, and we had civilians aboard one of our battleships for a tour and it was made very clear they were to obey the Captain, and were given rules like not to photograph our tech.
Sorry to take your thread off topic again, I just thought that was a false statement to justify Liam going over pathfinder's head when he should have never done so... and don't even get me started on his savage behavior on Habitat 7 - even if we saved people in the end - his actions put people in danger or were poor representations of humanity as a whole. Anyway, I'm not trying to bash - just sorting out an inconsistency with what you believe and what would be reality.Well, the Tempest is not a military ship as far as I know. The lack of weaponry has been a point discussion here as well before.
However, even on civilian ships the captain has authority and from a team point of view Ryder is in charge no matter how you twist or turn it. So for him to go off and do something like he did, was not ok.
To each their own though. I think Cora annoys me more than any of the companions, but the main difference is that there is at least an emotion that's triggered. Liam's about as non-offensive as it gets, except that he doesn't like clothes that much and he gets himself in trouble because he bites off more than he can chew. I say that as an observation rather than a judgment and since it doesn't get the main mission in trouble it's of no consequence for me as I can just leave him on the ship except for his companion mission.
So if people like him that's cool, but I suppose I just don't really get what his redeeming qualities are.
@lagruej wrote:
@Nykara360 wrote:I think what a lot fail to realize is the fact that the Pathfinder team arent actually under the Pathfinders orders per say. Its not an alliance military team its a civilian one.
I'm pretty sure just like real life, this isn't valid. A captain of a ship is still the captain, and they give the orders - just because civvy's volunteered doesn't change that - even on luxury cruises irl, if the Captain wants everybody in their cabins... well guess what... you're going to the cabin or you're getting arrested. If you go on fishing boat, guess who's in charge? Certainly not you because you're not military.
I did service for 2 years in my nation's navy, and we had civilians aboard one of our battleships for a tour and it was made very clear they were to obey the Captain, and were given rules like not to photograph our tech.
Sorry to take your thread off topic again, I just thought that was a false statement to justify Liam going over pathfinder's head when he should have never done so... and don't even get me started on his savage behavior on Habitat 7 - even if we saved people in the end - his actions put people in danger or were poor representations of humanity as a whole. Anyway, I'm not trying to bash - just sorting out an inconsistency with what you believe and what would be reality.
The Civilians on said ships are still allowed to do their own thing in off-duty times and don't have to run to the captain constantly for every little thing. They get up in the morning and go do their jobs, the only time they bother the Captain is if there is a problem with said job that they are unable to resolve on their own.As for Liam's job, pulling people together to look out for each other for safety purposes is part of that. Just like its easier to keep a neighbourhood safe if there is a safety watch group. He may have been stepping beyond what was required of his day to day duties but, thats not a bad thing. Going above and beyond in any job is actually a good thing.
@Nykara360 wrote:I think what a lot fail to realize is the fact that the Pathfinder team arent actually under the Pathfinders orders per say. Its not an alliance military team its a civilian one. They are expected to assist the Pathfinder when asked but outside of that, they have their own asigned tasks to perform without having to run and ask permission to do it. They are supposed to just do it and then request back-up from the other team members when its needed.
Its a big difference to an alliance military ship and crew like the Normandy was. Even a big difference to the SR2 when all crew where specifically told to follow Shepards orders.
Each member of the Pathfinding team had a set job already assigned to them to just do when not required by the Pathfinder his/herself and there is the difference. Sara didn't have to contact her Dad to ask permission to scout once they landed on the planet she was just expected to do her job.
Believe it or not, Liam was just doing his job, forging relationships with species and between colonies and used his own judgment on how best to achieve that. He also wasn't wrong, his instincts about those people were correct. The pirates timing was just bad luck, one didn't have anything to do with the other he just thought it was possible, so went to his team for backup feeling it was needed at that point in time. In doing so he further cemented those alliances as well.
As others pointed out, you still have a chain of command even in civilian organizations, and while he has some latitude to do his job and IF it was alien diplomacy, he was still going around behind Ryder and using Ryder without letting them know what is going on. Look at the difference in how Vetra and Liam handle misc odd side jobs of theirs.....Liam--Hey Ryder go scan this dude....dude starts to protest and maybe cause diplomatic issue....Liam says, Hey Ryder forget about it and come chill with me.....Sorry, I was just trying to steal info from them because I couldn't get them to show me, sorry, I don't think we are really in trouble..... Now Vetra, she says, Hey Ryder, I am going to um, "conduct some business with Drack's help...umm, NO, you don't really want to know but don't worry, it's "legal" on Kadara. bye.... Now what is the main differences in these?? One, Vetra gives Ryder a deniability that Liam doesn't, two, Vetra uses the skills of the team to finesse the situation, and three she still tells Ryder basically what she is going to do, not details but general idea.
Liam should have told Ryder WHY the scan was necessary and risks BEFORE the scan, and could have had Vetra see if she could swing a deal.
The other things is Liam has training in police work and crisis response......NOT DIPLOMACY, and his job is Security NOT building bridges between cultures. He has no listed training in doing what he was trying to do. IT WASN'T HIS JOB.....he just saw a "problem" and he wanted to "fix it" .........The PATHFINDER is the one responsible for first contact, and then after that, the NEXUS would take over diplomatic relations between the Angara and Nexus, not a fly by his pants ex-cop on an exploration team.......There are SO many things wrong with what he did, and the why he did it, that it's not even funny. Personally, if I had a choice he would be let off either on the Nexus or Kadara permanently for gross negligence and stupidity.
He gave away Nexus codes. That is treason civilian or not. He jeopardized everyone in the Initiative. That was not in his job description. He is rude to everyone. At the end of the soccer game, no matter how nice you are to him, he tells Ryder that she is a j*rk. He even send Ryder out to scan when he knows that could make the angara's authorities angry. The simple fact that Alex Ryder picked him and then he turns out to be a bone head just doesn't follow. Plus he is fugly. My personal opinion.
Good things about Liam:
1. He gets Ryder movie references.
2. His mission is a nod to Star Wars.
3. He hangs up the flags in the bar. One less thing for Ryder to do.
I found that the many flaws Liam has actually made him quite likeable.
Sure, I'd already decided my Sara would romance him before I started playing, but, aside from the * romance implementation, I didn't really regret it.
@Halofreak1990 wrote:I found that the many flaws Liam has actually made him quite likeable.
Sure, I'd already decided my Sara would romance him before I started playing, but, aside from the * romance implementation, I didn't really regret it.
Admittedly he's not all bad, but for me it's like at the start of the game he's ok and the more the story develops, the more I start wondering what the hell he's doing here.
I also think that the next time he has that scene with Jaal where they're running around nekkid together will give any female Ryder to wonder if he's for real during their romance, but hey, keeps life interesting I guess 😉
@chrissyce1123 wrote:He gave away Nexus codes. That is treason civilian or not. He jeopardized everyone in the Initiative. That was not in his job description. He is rude to everyone. At the end of the soccer game, no matter how nice you are to him, he tells Ryder that she is a j*rk. He even send Ryder out to scan when he knows that could make the angara's authorities angry. The simple fact that Alex Ryder picked him and then he turns out to be a bone head just doesn't follow. Plus he is fugly. My personal opinion.
Good things about Liam:
1. He gets Ryder movie references.
2. His mission is a nod to Star Wars.
3. He hangs up the flags in the bar. One less thing for Ryder to do.
I don't know where people get the Nexus codes info from because that's not what Liam says at all. He saus nexus nav points.
@Nykara360 wrote:I don't know where people get the Nexus codes info from because that's not what Liam says at all. He saus nexus nav points.
can't figure that out either. iirc, it's just nav points and schematics.
now, about the control ending of me3... we can't actually be sure that the reapers are actually under shepard's direct control. as i recall the fact is that a facsimile of shepard's personality was used to create a new reaper operating system, that doesn't mean your shepard with be personally directing the reapers. or at least that's what i saw. and i'm not sure i'm remembering everything correctly, as it's been quite a while.
