@EgoMania wrote:
@fudgietroll wrote:I don't think we should permanently write off a decent plot device because the writers are prone to abuse it. If they do a good job of it we should allow it in the future, possibly in this case, although asking them to expand their collection of plot tools is reasonable.
As for Revan, you had mentioned them resurrecting in SWTOR, so I thought I would go back a bit further to one of the (I believe) prequels KOTOR (Knights of the Old Republic) which I felt had done a good job with some of these issues. It's older, but still fun to play, and you can probably get it cheap at the steam sale right now.
Your conclusion that I want to permanently write it off is a false conclusion. Also the writers aren't just prone to abuse it, they already are abusing it and I want them to tone it down. Let them write a story or two without it and see if they can manage. I feel they are simply incapable of doing it now.
Besides to bring him back in a well written way also would mean that the initial death would have to be of a certain impact. I submit that this impact has not been achieved with Alec. We barely knew him and he wasn't very sympathetic so his death was like, oh well. Life goes on. And for him to be brought back after suffering a double death (lack of oxygen and transfer of SAM which is apparently usually lethal as well) it'd have to be a damn good reason that he's still alive. But why? I mean it's not something I'd be hoping for to begin with. So for me the whole point of bringing him back makes no sense. That ship has already sailed by having him die in such a meaningless context. I felt zero emotion at his death because of the way it played out so early on in the story.
And with Revan you explain the issue. It was dealt with already in KOTOR and then he came back a few more times in SWTOR as well. That just made it farcical. Then with all the other npc's that were being ressurrected left and right it just became completely ridiculous.
Again, nobody's writing anything off here but I'd like them to lay off the ressurrections for a couple of stories. They've abused that trick already too many times now and I think they can do something else now. Or can they? I mean, you didn't even get near the Archon when he supposedly died. Is he coming back as well for another round? I have to wonder, because BioWare story telling. Whenever a significant npc dies, I expect that he/she may come back and it kind of kills the surprise factor when you expect it. Surely, you've heard of the law of diminishing returns?
I never played SWTOR so I just have the KOTOR version, which is applicable. Revan was an individual you start out having no real emotional attachment to, then as you go along you find out more about them until WHAM they're back and screwing with the main antagonist's master plan. Alec is similar. We encounter him, couple brief interactions with him, he dies so we live, Daaad, etc., then we begin to find out more about him, including some of his off the books stuff, and he becomes more interesting, and we get a better idea of how he works, which is what got us to questioning his death in the first place. Really, if he comes back, the only way it works is if he pre-planned this and set it up so he could "die" in the first place, although we were probably not supposed to cut it as close as we did.
@fudgietroll wrote:I never played SWTOR so I just have the KOTOR version, which is applicable. Revan was an individual you start out having no real emotional attachment to, then as you go along you find out more about them until WHAM they're back and screwing with the main antagonist's master plan. Alec is similar. We encounter him, couple brief interactions with him, he dies so we live, Daaad, etc., then we begin to find out more about him, including some of his off the books stuff, and he becomes more interesting, and we get a better idea of how he works, which is what got us to questioning his death in the first place. Really, if he comes back, the only way it works is if he pre-planned this and set it up so he could "die" in the first place, although we were probably not supposed to cut it as close as we did.
Well if I remember right you end up being Revan in the KOTOR series. In SWTOR he comes back as a raven lunatic set on vengeance against Vitiate. There are a couple of flash points (SWTOR dungeons), one on the Republic and one on the Empire side. I guess on the Republic side you set him free from his prison and on the Empire side you defeat him but just before he disappears again he does some 2 minute emo speech.
Then he comes back later in the main story line where his personality is split and his dark side is still trying to blindly confront Vitiate who is using him to come back himself. In the end Vitiate escapes and you have to beat Revan after which his two sides are reunited and he dies. So he has two comebacks in SWTOR. Vitiate also has a few and this create called Kephess also comes back a couple of times. All in the same game and there are actually more characters that have surprise returns left and right.
If you haven't played SWTOR though I get why you may not see the issue, but for me they threw us to death with this gimmick and just wish they'd stop using it multiple times in each story. Look at it this way:
Main Ryder: dies in the story and has to be ressurrected
Twin Ryder: in coma after accident comes back later
Ma Ryder: presumed dead, comes back in stasis pod
Dad Ryder: ?
Do we really need another Ryder that's pulled out of the story and comes back?
To me it's just really getting old and by doing this multiple times in one game, it destroys the actual sense of loss. I want a story to have meaning and that it takes me through emotions. When people die and get up again left and right, the sense of loss is negated. And when that happens the "surprise" return is also lessened because you were sort of expecting it to happen.
Particularly after the Ellen Ryder discovery, the gimmick is used. It's supposed to be a powerful thing but by using it left and right so casually it loses its value.
That alone is reason enough for me to not want Alec to come back and to wonder why BioWare are not able to write stories anymore that don't involve multiple people coming back from the dead. If Alec is supposed to work out like Revan as you described it, they should've left Ellen and the twins alone on that. Then it could've been special.
I mean what are you suggesting? That ME:A2 is planned to be a game where you play Alec or Ellen Ryder?
i guess we're all getting resurrection sickness by now... lol. i haven't gotten into the old republic, nor TES online. even though my friends are telling me i should at least give them a try before writing them off. if i'm going to get into a new mmo, i'm going back to guildwars 2.
I don't really find this fair, myself.
For player-character Ryder, it's pretty obvious that you only come close to dying and don't actually die. It's to show the seriousness of the situation.
For bro-sis Ryder, there is no sense of 'death' or anything, just that they have been injured and the doctor is being careful in treatment.
Mom Ryder, OTOH, that was actually a little slick, cool and nice as a storyline. And technically, she might not die, she's still literally only minutes/hours from dying from space-cancer/poison while in stasis.
About the only thing I do agree on is that Alex Ryder would be really lame if they brought him back, as your whole journey starts by his death and you filling in for his position.
@CasperTheLich wrote:i guess we're all getting resurrection sickness by now... lol. i haven't gotten into the old republic, nor TES online. even though my friends are telling me i should at least give them a try before writing them off. if i'm going to get into a new mmo, i'm going back to guildwars 2.
Guild Wars 2?? Eek, rather you than me. That children's game is horrendous, but to each their own.
I just wish they hadn't ruined SWTOR as much as they have. I'd still be playing it but the latest expansion and that immoral cash shop really just killed the game for me completely.
To be fair I've been looking around but there's just no MMO out there that really ticks enough boxes for me and perhaps that's just as well.
what i actually liked the most about gw2, i just had to pay that first $30 for the game, and that's it... none of that 15 bucks a month bs. and yes, i did find it an enjoyable game too. i really liked how the weapon/skill combos worked out. but that's just me. though it's been years since i've played it. when i get into just about any mmo, at some point i'll get to a place where i'm sick to death of all mmo's for a good long while... till my friends tempt me back to em. think i've been strictly single-player for about 5 years or so by now.
@CasperTheLich wrote:what i actually liked the most about gw2, i just had to pay that first $30 for the game, and that's it... none of that 15 bucks a month bs. and yes, i did find it an enjoyable game too. i really liked how the weapon/skill combos worked out. but that's just me. though it's been years since i've played it. when i get into just about any mmo, at some point i'll get to a place where i'm sick to death of all mmo's for a good long while... till my friends tempt me back to em. think i've been strictly single-player for about 5 years or so by now.
I don't mind paying a sub if the game is worth it. To me it was just a big kiddie game, bordering on my little pony level. I've played GW2 twice...on release and after the expansion came out. In both instances leveling characters was a chore and what was fun in the game to me only lasted so long. It just has no long-term appeal to me. The first time around I quite enjoyed doing the jumping puzzles and the second time around I enjoyed gaining the gliding abilities. For the rest it was just a chaotic mess running from one so called event to another.
To each their own of course but I don't see how you could play it for that long. Leveling characters alone is dead boring. Even Anet admitted that by bringing items into the game that allow you to skip levels.
I hear you about MMOs though. I have reached that point via SWTOR. Just sick and tired of MMOs and the falling quality of expansions and hoping for things that never come....and in SWTOR you can actually pay yourself blue on cosmetic gamble packs since there isn't much else to do. Nah, enough of that.
