Community ManagerCommunity Manager@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:
@EA_Aljo wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
Am I missing something here.. or are we no longer getting tuner updates?
We don't really do tuner updates any longer. This mostly stopped with the last couple of games. We always received a large amount of feedback on the game being better during the beta. Because of that, we've been very hesitant to make tuner changes and will only do that for more critical issues.
You understand how insanely messed up this is, right?
You used to receive feedback saying how the betas were great and would proceed to mess everything up a week later with the "revert" patch - We all band together this year saying how horrible the experience was, in both tests, and you're refusing to do anything?In my opinion, "the beta is great" crowd were simply experiencing the game with no META (at least as it pertains to online play in OVP, HUT and WoC). They glorified the "before the tuners" builds because it was during a time where nobody knew the META and everyone was playing hockey.
After a few weeks, the META makes itself known and then EA tries to combat the exploits buried within it. Upon doing so, they rile up the 'beta was better' crew who refuse to acknowledge their ignorance to what was changed and what wasn't.
I don't blame EA for foregoing tuner updates, although I am disappointed that the chances for gameplay changes are now limited to quarterly patches. I blame the trolls who amplified the "beta was better" nonsense. They just liked the lack of a META - as we all did - but tuner or no tuner, the META would reveal itself anyway and a skill gap will always exist between those who get it and those who don't.
I completely agree with you. It takes a bit for people to adapt to the changes in the new game. Then, as you mentioned, there's the meta that takes some time to become widely used. At that point, we get accusations that we destroyed the gameplay with tuners so, we have largely stopped making tuner updates. I think there was maybe one for 22?
@KidShowtime1867
People kept trying to force the previous META during the old betas and failed miserably - that's why they were so well perceived. Problem is, once they started to complain, EA would issue that week-in patch completely removing any/all changes. All this ever does is reinforce the need/want for a META.
They made 2 large changes this year: even worse goalies, and nerfing defense more by making them slow - Since they are no longer tuning anything, we're stuck with this garbage. You tend to play 6v6 with humans so it ultimately shouldn't effect you but this seriously impacts teams like mine. To just officially give up on making any updates now and in future titles is just weird.
What's the point in providing feedback if EA Sports isn't going to act on it? We need consistent testing and updates, not for the team to sit on their hands. It would have been a better strategy other years where tuners made it worse, but they picked the year a tuner was needed most haha
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:@KidShowtime1867
People kept trying to force the previous META during the old betas and failed miserably - that's why they were so well perceived. Problem is, once they started to complain, EA would issue that week-in patch completely removing any/all changes. All this ever does is reinforce the need/want for a META.
I agree that the beta builds were so well received for the point you mentioned: It was refreshing to see someone have their typical goals squashed by a new meta.
but from the ruins of an old meta rises a new one, and you'll see large swaths of players either conform to and succeed with the new meta, or they'll fall victim to not recognizing the nuanced changes within the META (by way of tuners) and then proceed to claim EA broke the game.
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:
They made 2 large changes this year: even worse goalies, and nerfing defense more by making them slow - Since they are no longer tuning anything, we're stuck with this garbage. You tend to play 6v6 with humans so it ultimately shouldn't effect you but this seriously impacts teams like mine. To just officially give up on making any updates now and in future titles is just weird.
I believe there definitely needs to be some changes to the A.I., specifically the 'muted' nature in which they defend. I understand the need for muted A.I. to prevent 'skill zoning', but there needs to be a threshold where the A.i. takes a passive approach only for so long.
I think those of us contributing to this thread here are making a good case for this to be addressed and from what I gather, changes would impact non 6v6 teams like yourself as well. I'm actually optimistic that the things we are bringing forth in these threads (The Bubble, A.I., Goalies) are getting looked at by those who need to see them. But yes, it's weird that tuners are a thing of the past now and with a patch just releasing tomorrow, we're probably another 2-3 months away from any possible changes being implemented.
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:
What's the point in providing feedback if EA Sports isn't going to act on it? We need consistent testing and updates, not for the team to sit on their hands
Although we're limited to seeing changes in patches, I think there's still reason to provide feedback for things that don't jive with the sport. There are countless scenarios that play out in this game It's hard to imagine that the development team or QA are going to see 100% of them. So it's still important to call things out when you see them.
@KidShowtime1867
There are issues spanning back a decade, I really wouldn't be that optimistic if I were you
Community Manager
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:
What's the point in providing feedback if EA Sports isn't going to act on it? We need consistent testing and updates, not for the team to sit on their hands. It would have been a better strategy other years where tuners made it worse, but they picked the year a tuner was needed most haha
Feedback is implemented outside of tuner updates. Also, gameplay feedback is collected throughout the year and is used for modifying gameplay the next year.
Just because we're not currently doing tuner updates, it doesn't mean we never will again. Just like we stopped issuing tuners based on feedback that was received, it's possible they could return if we hear otherwise.
@EA_Aljo wrote:
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:What's the point in providing feedback if EA Sports isn't going to act on it? We need consistent testing and updates, not for the team to sit on their hands. It would have been a better strategy other years where tuners made it worse, but they picked the year a tuner was needed most haha
Feedback is implemented outside of tuner updates. Also, gameplay feedback is collected throughout the year and is used for modifying gameplay the next year.
Just because we're not currently doing tuner updates, it doesn't mean we never will again. Just like we stopped issuing tuners based on feedback that was received, it's possible they could return if we hear otherwise.
"You didn't like the gameplay changes we made years ago so we're not making any more post-release gameplay changes." Wow. I don't know how else to say it, but that's not the response of a professional software company. It's the response of a petulant child. It's the kind of thing my kids would say when I try to tell them they're doing something the wrong way and offer them suggestions on how to do it right. "You don't like they way I'm doing this? Fine! I won't do anything then!".
Forget about the fact that, as others have said here, much of the previous year's positive feedback from previous betas was mostly due to the 'newness' factor. This year in both the tech test feedback and post release there has been an overwhelming amount of problems brought up by the community with constructive criticism and video evidence to support the feedback. There are significant, fundamental problems with the way the game plays right now and we're basically being told to suck it up and buy next year's version in the hopes that maybe some of the problems will be addressed.
My club mates and I saw and reported most of the major problems with defense and goalies during the tech test. We bought the game under the assumption that the problems were so obvious and so bad that there was no way EA would release the final version in that state. Guess we're just a bunch of suckers.
Community Manager
@PlayoffError wrote:
"You didn't like the gameplay changes we made years ago so we're not making any more post-release gameplay changes." Wow. I don't know how else to say it, but that's not the response of a professional software company. It's the response of a petulant child. It's the kind of thing my kids would say when I try to tell them they're doing something the wrong way and offer them suggestions on how to do it right. "You don't like they way I'm doing this? Fine! I won't do anything then!".
Forget about the fact that, as others have said here, much of the previous year's positive feedback from previous betas was mostly due to the 'newness' factor. This year in both the tech test feedback and post release there has been an overwhelming amount of problems brought up by the community with constructive criticism and video evidence to support the feedback. There are significant, fundamental problems with the way the game plays right now and we're basically being told to suck it up and buy next year's version in the hopes that maybe some of the problems will be addressed.
My club mates and I saw and reported most of the major problems with defense and goalies during the tech test. We bought the game under the assumption that the problems were so obvious and so bad that there was no way EA would release the final version in that state. Guess we're just a bunch of suckers.
The bolded part is really not what I said. We listened to the community. We would receive a huge amount of feedback every year saying not to make changes because the beta gameplay is great. It was a very big request. We listened and acted on it. Now, some of you want us to go back to making tuner changes after the beta. I'll pass on that feedback.
Also, keep in mind, tuners are specifically related to gameplay issues. Patches address bugs and add new content. This year, we've heard gameplay is in a good place for the most part. That also is why we haven't made any tuner changes. No, it's not perfect so please don't read into that saying we're 100% happy with the gameplay and nothing needs to be changed. Very often, fixing one issue can cause other, bigger issues so we sometimes have to keep a bug in the game until the next year when it can be properly addressed. This also obviously doesn't mean that every bug gets resolved the next year, but when one sticks around for a while, it's very possible that's the reason.
@EA_Aljo wrote:
@PlayoffError wrote:"You didn't like the gameplay changes we made years ago so we're not making any more post-release gameplay changes." Wow. I don't know how else to say it, but that's not the response of a professional software company. It's the response of a petulant child. It's the kind of thing my kids would say when I try to tell them they're doing something the wrong way and offer them suggestions on how to do it right. "You don't like they way I'm doing this? Fine! I won't do anything then!".
Forget about the fact that, as others have said here, much of the previous year's positive feedback from previous betas was mostly due to the 'newness' factor. This year in both the tech test feedback and post release there has been an overwhelming amount of problems brought up by the community with constructive criticism and video evidence to support the feedback. There are significant, fundamental problems with the way the game plays right now and we're basically being told to suck it up and buy next year's version in the hopes that maybe some of the problems will be addressed.
My club mates and I saw and reported most of the major problems with defense and goalies during the tech test. We bought the game under the assumption that the problems were so obvious and so bad that there was no way EA would release the final version in that state. Guess we're just a bunch of suckers.
The bolded part is really not what I said. We listened to the community. We would receive a huge amount of feedback every year saying not to make changes because the beta gameplay is great. It was a very big request. We listened and acted on it. Now, some of you want us to go back to making tuner changes after the beta. I'll pass on that feedback.
Also, keep in mind, tuners are specifically related to gameplay issues. Patches address bugs and add new content. This year, we've heard gameplay is in a good place for the most part. That also is why we haven't made any tuner changes. No, it's not perfect so please don't read into that saying we're 100% happy with the gameplay and nothing needs to be changed. Very often, fixing one issue can cause other, bigger issues so we sometimes have to keep a bug in the game until the next year when it can be properly addressed. This also obviously doesn't mean that every bug gets resolved the next year, but when one sticks around for a while, it's very possible that's the reason.
I'm sorry, WHERE did you hear gameplay is in a good place? Are you reading these boards? That just cements my theory that you only act on feedback from streamers etc who you can benefit from when they pull your new card and advertise how awesome he is in his stream. Gameplay is worse than it's been since nhl14.
@EA_Aljo wrote:
@PlayoffError wrote:"You didn't like the gameplay changes we made years ago so we're not making any more post-release gameplay changes." Wow. I don't know how else to say it, but that's not the response of a professional software company. It's the response of a petulant child. It's the kind of thing my kids would say when I try to tell them they're doing something the wrong way and offer them suggestions on how to do it right. "You don't like they way I'm doing this? Fine! I won't do anything then!".
Forget about the fact that, as others have said here, much of the previous year's positive feedback from previous betas was mostly due to the 'newness' factor. This year in both the tech test feedback and post release there has been an overwhelming amount of problems brought up by the community with constructive criticism and video evidence to support the feedback. There are significant, fundamental problems with the way the game plays right now and we're basically being told to suck it up and buy next year's version in the hopes that maybe some of the problems will be addressed.
My club mates and I saw and reported most of the major problems with defense and goalies during the tech test. We bought the game under the assumption that the problems were so obvious and so bad that there was no way EA would release the final version in that state. Guess we're just a bunch of suckers.
The bolded part is really not what I said. We listened to the community. We would receive a huge amount of feedback every year saying not to make changes because the beta gameplay is great. It was a very big request. We listened and acted on it. Now, some of you want us to go back to making tuner changes after the beta. I'll pass on that feedback.
Also, keep in mind, tuners are specifically related to gameplay issues. Patches address bugs and add new content. This year, we've heard gameplay is in a good place for the most part. That also is why we haven't made any tuner changes. No, it's not perfect so please don't read into that saying we're 100% happy with the gameplay and nothing needs to be changed. Very often, fixing one issue can cause other, bigger issues so we sometimes have to keep a bug in the game until the next year when it can be properly addressed. This also obviously doesn't mean that every bug gets resolved the next year, but when one sticks around for a while, it's very possible that's the reason.
This is unacceptable. You are always vague about these things being fixed or not. Obviously on purpose so we'll just hope it is and buy the new game. Telling us you cannot fix something that's been in game for years is not acceptable from a consumer standpoint. So you're admitting to knowingly selling a broken product. Not you aljo. I get your role and I'm sorry you have to take the hit for the stupid decision your bosses have been making for years
@EA_Aljo wrote:
This year, we've heard gameplay is in a good place for the most part.
Where and from who?
How can EA look at the videos posted here and elsewhere documenting the very serious issue with goalies, poke-checks/DSS and hitting and say "Yup, looks good! The community loves it!"?
@EA_Aljo wrote:Also, keep in mind, tuners are specifically related to gameplay issues. Patches address bugs and add new content. This year, we've heard gameplay is in a good place for the most part. That also is why we haven't made any tuner changes. No, it's not perfect so please don't read into that saying we're 100% happy with the gameplay and nothing needs to be changed. Very often, fixing one issue can cause other, bigger issues so we sometimes have to keep a bug in the game until the next year when it can be properly addressed. This also obviously doesn't mean that every bug gets resolved the next year, but when one sticks around for a while, it's very possible that's the reason.
What?!?!? Who thinks that gameplay is in a good place? The stick-lift is broken. The poke check and DSS are virtually useless now with the massive speed penalty to using them. While some speed penalty was needed to stop the poke-spamming, this went way too far. The goalies are absolutely terrible--worse than they've ever been. I only way I can imagine someone thinking this is good gameplay is if they only care about offense.
@Kmahrle83These forums are not even probably 1% of the voiced community. You know where the biggest voiced community is and they gather feedback from us throughout the year on features/issues. Just accept the fact these forums aren't exactly the best place besides pointing out something that is truly actually broken.
But I'm sure in NHL 24 sticklifts will work again and hitting will be toned down. They seem to always flip flop on this.
This patch is the ultimate slap in the face for everybody that has supported your wallets through the years. The level of disrespect is astonishing.
I used to want what was best for this game but now I want it to die a miserable death. There is literally no hope for this game with the people currently in charge making decisions. It's obvious there's a skeleton crew now working on the game and they've moved resources elsewhere.
They clearly don't care and no amount of playcating will suffice.
I knew EA didn't care but to this level is truly impressive. So many people are providing feedback and are asked to provide videos. What for? Why did you get us to waste our time?
And don't tell us it's being taken into consideration because the writing is clearly on the wall that it isn't. It'll get taken into consideration in the couple of months they use to pump out NHL 24 so they can try to extract even more of our time and money.
Absolutely shameful. Those poor kids who will get this game for Christmas.
@KlariskraysNHL wrote:@Kmahrle83These forums are not even probably 1% of the voiced community. You know where the biggest voiced community is and they gather feedback from us throughout the year on features/issues. Just accept the fact these forums aren't exactly the best place besides pointing out something that is truly actually broken.
But I'm sure in NHL 24 sticklifts will work again and hitting will be toned down. They seem to always flip flop on this.
You're right. But it's all social media. Everyone I talk to about the game etc. NOBODY thinks this game is in a good place and I'm tired of just accepting the gaslighting from billion dollar corporation like EA. This excuse has been used to death over the years. Doesn't fly anymore lol.
@Kmahrle83Most of the people i game with just don't care because we are all on even ground when it comes to playing 6's all humans.
The excuse or whatever might not fly but they pushing thru with it regardless. I mean I see the same people who hate the game saying they are done then come next iteration they have a copy and are complaining. They are part of the problem by continually playing the series.
were the servers fixed?
