Forum Discussion
@RicochetII wrote:This is not intended to be a rant or complaint thread, though there may be some examples which feel that way.
The direction and design simply isn't being made clear to the consumer base.
What is this game supposed to be?
According to the branding and marketing, it is an "NHL" game.
The connotation of "NHL" on the cover, is "a gaming experience which mirrors hockey in a form that is representative of the NHL".
What are some reasonable expectations given that context?
1. Presentation: NHL uniforms, NHL equipment, NHL players, NHL arenas, etc.
In game (primarily in CHEL), those aspects are often completely ignored. Purposefully.
- Uniforms are discarded in favor of everything from hoodies to pajamas (or worse)
- Equipment gets the same treatment ignoring helmets/visors and including gloves, skates, and sticks with often silly designs
- Rinks that are a step below amateur in outdoor venues with none of the quality or atmosphere of an NHL arena
This isn't counting the alternate game modes which take some of these aspects even further.
2. Game Modes: NHL hockey is at it's core 6v6 on the ice, 5 skaters and 1 goaltender, with specific rules designed for the sport.
EA has introduced ones and threes "arcade" modes as well as the 3v3 watered-down version of NHL OT with its own set of rules.
These are secondary (or even inconsequential) to what is expected from an NHL series, which is 6v6 on-ice play with NHL rules, but they are given attention and dilute the userbase for what "should" be the primary focus. A robust and accurate representation of 6v6 NHL gameplay.
3. Gameplay: NHL rules, physics, and player ability should be accurately represented.
The rules are more or less as expected in 6v6 (ignoring other game modes because the rules are often just made up or non-existent). There's room for improvement in the application of those rules (rather than just random chance when x and y occur). Perhaps we are not yet at a point technically where rules can be applied through an analysis of the physical interactions alone.
The physics themselves, as applied in game, create too many unrealistic situations. Solid objects passing through each other and pucks magnetized or otherwise influenced to remain in play are among the most egregious. Perhaps there are technical limitations involved here as well, but at the very least stick blades and pucks should be solid and have realistic interactions. "Pong" achieved that in 1972. There's no reason we can't have it in 2023.
With the stick and puck interactions resolved, other elements related to player abilities should be able to be resolved incrementally.
- Hitting interactions have been ramped up to market the game, but NHL players are more elusive and resilient than EA gives them credit for. They don't get rag dolled on legal body checks frequently and they don't stay down for more than a few seconds unless injured.
- Lacrosses and Hipchecks have been brought up continuously already and EA took some action, but it simply doesn't go far enough. You might see a hipcheck once a game (if that) and it's done with momentum against speed up the boards. Hitting is a skill and hip checks involve the most skill to pull off while requiring certain conditions to be present. The Lacrosse move has been successful maybe a handful of times and attempted maybe a few times a year. It also takes skill and a certain set of conditions, chief among those is an unaware goaltender and AI goaltenders should not be unaware unless those conditions are met. Having both of these as "one-touch" buttons completely ignores the skill aspect. They don't even require accurate setup or positioning.
- Generally speaking, every "flashy" but mostly realistic thing implemented in the game happens with exaggerated impact and/or frequency. While mundane things that very frequently happen in real life occur with less frequency. A player catching/intercepting a slapshot is rare (especially the catching part) and never as clean as the game represents. The puck deflecting over the glass on a shot happens a lot, but it slows down the game with more faceoffs, so it rarely happens.
I believe I've gone far enough with explaining the difference between this game and expectations, though we all know there is more to cover. This isn't about bugs or little items that get overlooked. My intention is to get everyone to step back and ask themselves "What are we doing? Why are we doing it? Who are we doing it for? How can we do it better?".
My personal view is that I want a game that at least attempts to look and feel like the NHL.
My feeling is that those are not priorities for EA.
I am seeing increasing numbers of players that share my perspective (though not necessarily to the same extent, I don't presume to speak for everyone) being driven away or becoming disenchanted with the franchise in the face of so many design decisions which appear to cater to an entirely different group of players.
Perhaps I'm no longer the target audience and the majority wants 3v3 with superpowers and character skins.
If that's the case I will simply accept it and move on. I can find something else to do with my time.
EA hasn't made it clear, at least to me, what exactly this game is supposed to be and who it is supposed to be for. Perhaps they don't even know themselves.
I'd appreciate it if they would present a clear direction, at least for next year if they can't now. I'm no longer going to dive into the current product blindly.
The direction of the game is a hockey game for people that don't really like hockey that much. Why those people would buy a hockey game is beyond me, but apparently these people exist according to EA.
According to EA, these people want:
- unrealistic skating that is unrealistically responsive and has no momentum when turning or time to accelerate
- a gigantic margin for error on offense as far as inputs, aiming, timing, etc
- no margin for error on defence as far as inputs, aiming, timing, etc
- a Tik-Tok/Fortnite/Street Basketball aesthetic characterized by expressing yourself with corny outfits and emotes (including wolf costumes and levitating emotes)
- making once or twice a year real life highlight reel plays happen multiple times per game (sometimes with a press of a single button!)
- taking direct control of outcomes out of the players inputs and putting more of an importance on the "numbers" (x-factors, exhaust engine, etc) turning the game into diablo on ice
- removing some "icky" things like loose pucks, pass interceptions/deflections, and dump-ins
That is the direction of the EA NHL series right now.
- 2 years ago@Jagavekov
I'm trying to encourage a reevaluation of priorities in the design and development and some sort of consistency in the decisions being made, but you aren't wrong. I would have a similar and much lengthier list if I was pointing out each item individually.
A 3v3 hockey game where everyone is a forward with equal stats to start, you can choose powerups (X-Factors), and have equipment which provides persistent boosts (a werewolf mask gives you more hitting strength), might be a fun, hockey-adjacent game.
They kind of tried it with NHL 3 on 3 Arcade in 2009(?). I don't know what the numbers were for it, but since it was a one-off I'm guessing not good.
Which would make me question why they are heading in that direction with the main game, but perhaps nobody connected the dots.
Personally, I would want to keep it as close to hockey as possible because I also don't believe the game has a large cross-over demographic (though I don't have the numbers to support that belief).
I don't follow baseball so I'm not about to go out and buy a baseball game, no matter how much "fun" they make it.
You have an audience that is drawn by an interest to what they see on TV and follow in real life. The trick is turning that interest into consumers.
So how do you take a casual hockey fan that bought the game on sale a year after release and convince them to buy the next one?
A) Give them casual clothes and an outdoor rink for their first ever multiplayer experience, which is full of confusing setup, bugs, and unrealistic play.
OR
B) Put them into a game as a member of their favorite team with all the atmosphere of a real life presentation after a very simple and intuitive character creation process.
Group B is more likely to stick around long enough to learn more about the game. Group A is likely to go "What the H is this?" and bail because it is so far from expectations.
I hope conversations around the game's direction can continue and inspire positive changes.- 2 years agoI don’t know if It's that easy that EA just can choose how realistic they want the game to be.
If you look at the graphics, that's one thing that takes the game closer to the real hockey, by it looks.
But to get the right feeling must be much harder.
I think EA will continue to do their best to give us the most out of two worlds. Video gaming and hockey.
The better the technology gets the easier it gets to both have a fun game and a game that look and feel like hockey.
But to get everyone that play the game to play realistic hockey, is that possible?
EA can absolutly give us the right tools but I also think the people that play the game need to give something too..- 2 years ago@Sega82mega
The looks are the easiest thing to get right. It's a choice that involves more effort not to.
As I said before, the technology may have limitations, but the basic, most rudimentary elements have existed for decades. Get the most essential thing right, then add the next thing, then the next. (Without breaking what worked previously.)
With 30(ish) iterations, there should be a steady progression towards "something", but there's a disappointing lack of progression and even some regression, because that "something" has been lost sight of.
The "NHL" on the cover should make the goal clear, in my opinion. You are selling an NHL game, so make an NHL game. That attracts people with an interest in the NHL.
Once you get their attention, you have to keep it and perhaps more importantly, avoid losing it.
Outdoor rinks? You're going to lose more attention than you gain. Steadily adding similar elements is going to result in losing attention from those looking for NHL hockey while alienating existing users.
As far as getting everyone to play a more, I'll say reasonable rather than realistic, game of hockey, I'm not suggesting that is easy.
It would require emphasis on "actual hockey play" being rewarded and educating players on what actual hockey play is.
Not everyone is going to be a good player, but most of them can at least get to the point of being a serviceable teammate.
The community can absolutely help in leading by example, but you can't give good examples when the game makes them look like bad ones. Good hockey play isn't rewarded. Cheesy meta play is.