FIGHTING NEEDS TO BE REBUILT!!
NHL needs a new fighting engine!! The fighting has not been good for a long time. I even stopped purchasing NHL games because of this. The gameplay is always good but when it comes to fighting it's ...
Forum Discussion
EA_Aljo
Community Manager
Community ManagerAs mentioned, Truculence does not make you less likely to take penalties. I agree with you on the stamina loss/gain for big hits and winning fights. Thanks for all the feedback.
Your idea for fights would most likely result in less of them. Which, I like because I personally find it annoying when the game stops for a fight. However, fighting for an injured teammate is pretty realistic. With all the requests for a more sim and realistic game, it seems this should probably stay in. I'm not saying there isn't a better way to handle it though. I'd love to see less encouragement for hitting all around. Which would result in fewer injured players and thus, fewer fights. Thanks so much for all the input.
@EA_Aljo The main issue that I see with forced fights, especially 1v1, is that the big hit you reference usually turns into a turnover and often times is a breakaway or an odd man rush... the other player spams fight to kill the rush, in which case an NHLer would never take that fight to stop a breakway or an odd man. That flies in the face of realism.
I'd also agree that 2/5/10 should be in play for the forced fights if they're left in game as is.
I'd also agree that 2/5/10 should be in play for the forced fights if they're left in game as is.
There is not a good place for injuries in things like EASHL and for that, I applaud the changes they made to Injuries in 24. Two min is enough time to feel the effects of your mistake and then get right back into the game. Sure there is a place for hits to injure a player on the ice like when someone has their head down and is skating full speed into a brick wall, but the problem is that these injuries happen from just zero speed a guy just hitting you against the boards. On top of this, hits have a large grace period that even after the puck has been sent off your stick, I've seen as high as over a second getting blasted into later, injured and no penalty was called. I did everything I was supposed to but got killed without repercussions. The grace period for being hit needs to be severely lowered if you want to punish players for being hit, which I am fine if you want to go this route.
You would also need a way to lower the chances of that hit injuring you with something like the brace feature that was in last years game but did nothing unless you had the puck in the form of the reverse hit. If I was able to react by bracing for that defender coming at me super late to neutralize their hit and maybe just knock me off balance, than it could be more fair to have injuries be 5 min and really punish your poor decision making. But right now, in its current state that stuff to protect you when getting attacked late doesn't exist and so having a short injury timer is the right strategy.
@Jbats41 wrote:
@EA_AljoThe main issue that I see with forced fights, especially 1v1, is that the big hit you reference usually turns into a turnover and often times is a breakaway or an odd man rush... the other player spams fight to kill the rush,100%. I have done this myself: If my player gets crushed, injured & the fight prompt pops up - I'm taking that fight as soon as I see my opponent getting a resulting breakaway or odd-man rush.
If you brought in line changes/multiple builds to eashl I think you open up a ton of possibilities for reworking the fighting/instigating system and actually having more of a place for enforcers/tough guy builds.
- EA_Aljo
@BabyPuncher525 wrote:
If you brought in line changes/multiple builds to eashl I think you open up a ton of possibilities for reworking the fighting/instigating system and actually having more of a place for enforcers/tough guy builds.
I think we can rework the fighting/instigating without line changes. I just don't think line changes are realistic for WoC. It would require more humans or an additional build for each line. Which just seems overly complicated.
@EA_Aljo wrote:
@BabyPuncher525 wrote:If you brought in line changes/multiple builds to eashl I think you open up a ton of possibilities for reworking the fighting/instigating system and actually having more of a place for enforcers/tough guy builds.
I think we can rework the fighting/instigating without line changes. I just don't think line changes are realistic for WoC. It would require more humans or an additional build for each line. Which just seems overly complicated.
I don't think it needs to be.
We all have that list of builds we choose from pre-game. It would be nice if we were able to skate to the bench and "line change" with one of those builds.
- EA_Aljo
How much does that really add to the game though? I like the added realism of it, but it just seems unnecessary. Especially with the shortened periods we have. It would also make injuries almost pointless since you could just switch to a different player while they recover on the bench.
- @EA_Aljo Oh no they would want the scaled type players of a 1st liner in attributes then others decrease as you go down to 4th liner. The pace of the game slows down immensely with the need of goalies to cover almost everything. Ragging the puck would become more of a thing. We all dislike playing goon squads because those games can literally take an hour to complete when games should only be taking 20-25mins.
@EA_Aljo wrote:How much does that really add to the game though? I like the added realism of it, but it just seems unnecessary. Especially with the shortened periods we have. It would also make injuries almost pointless since you could just switch to a different player while they recover on the bench.
Changing to a new build would be non-forced ie: it's not as if you're changing lines because you're at the end of a shift and fatigued. It would be purely another chance for the user to pick a different build if they choose to.
You could disable the ability to change builds during injury.
I just like the idea of being able to pick a new build in the event that your team needs a shake-up during the game. Things aren't flowing with a TWD, so I move to an OFD. Down a goal with 2 mins left - swap my Enforcer for a sniper. All of these changes being done on the fly or in-between periods would mean there's no impact to the flow of the game either.
All depends how multiple builds/line changes would be implemented by EA. Tons of possibilities for new ideas. In my mind I'm thinking of it having an impact pretty much on everything from injuries, stamina to the whole fighting/instigating. Maybe injuries should last for the game and durability actually have a place in eashl? Line changes would be strategic or based off running low on stamina with that particular build. Someone keeps running your smaller scoring builds with a truculence pwf? Bring out the enforcer and make them think twice the next time they lay a big hit. Take the 2 min instigating if you feel it necessary at times.
@EA_Aljo wrote:How much does that really add to the game though? I like the added realism of it, but it just seems unnecessary. Especially with the shortened periods we have. It would also make injuries almost pointless since you could just switch to a different player while they recover on the bench.
I think line changes would absolutely change the way the game is played in multiple aspects. My idea of line changes in its simplest design, is two circles at each door of the bench big enough for one person that refills your stamina back to full when you come to a full stop. No other methods, except maybe x-factor triggers like a born leader, or a stoppage of play etc., will you get your stamina back making it so it only depletes as you use it throughout play.
What this does is open up more of the ice, allowing for more opportunities to out play each other. As a Defenseman, I never have to leave the penalty box side of the ice and can shadow my winger the whole time. The penalty box side is supposed to be more dangerous because of how far it is to skate across back into position from the bench which doesn't translate in this game. The 5man NZ trap meta exists because of the lack of line changing. Everyone skates back on their side of the ice to play their role. No switching sides whatsoever causes zero confusion and zero opportunities for the attackers to capitalize on that confusion.
This would also allow another small skill increase to players for "changing" at the right time vs a bad time. Teams playing it safe to get the puck in the ozone so their defense can go refill. Most people do not try these dump and chase methods because they just go back and reset the play entirely while their teammates get their stamina back to full.
You can't try any 1on1 moves because their is always a full or even half stamina guy behind you skating back at full speed as they know they can just coast for a bit afterwards and get back 25% of it quickly. On top of this, every 1v1 move slows your forward momentum making it even more difficult to perform anything without someone on top of you by the time you are out of that animation.
The highest scoring period in hockey is usually the second because in the second, the bench is on the other teams side of the ice which causes issues for line changing (3rd because of EN goals). Again there is no translation to this in the game and I think line changing would help benefit this.In relation to the injuries, you could make it so your player is actually limping or moving really slowly to get to the bench when he is injured and then when he has reached the bench, he could have his stamina return to full but have that small reduction in stats that we currently have in game. So now you have an advantage while he "goes for a change" and then a small advantage in stats while he is recovering from the injury itself.
@hiperay wrote:
@EA_Aljo wrote:How much does that really add to the game though? I like the added realism of it, but it just seems unnecessary. Especially with the shortened periods we have. It would also make injuries almost pointless since you could just switch to a different player while they recover on the bench.
I think line changes would absolutely change the way the game is played in multiple aspects. My idea of line changes in its simplest design, is two circles at each door of the bench big enough for one person that refills your stamina back to full when you come to a full stop. No other methods, except maybe x-factor triggers like a born leader, or a stoppage of play etc., will you get your stamina back making it so it only depletes as you use it throughout play.
What this does is open up more of the ice, allowing for more opportunities to out play each other. As a Defenseman, I never have to leave the penalty box side of the ice and can shadow my winger the whole time. The penalty box side is supposed to be more dangerous because of how far it is to skate across back into position from the bench which doesn't translate in this game. The 5man NZ trap meta exists because of the lack of line changing. Everyone skates back on their side of the ice to play their role. No switching sides whatsoever causes zero confusion and zero opportunities for the attackers to capitalize on that confusion.
This would also allow another small skill increase to players for "changing" at the right time vs a bad time. Teams playing it safe to get the puck in the ozone so their defense can go refill. Most people do not try these dump and chase methods because they just go back and reset the play entirely while their teammates get their stamina back to full.
You can't try any 1on1 moves because their is always a full or even half stamina guy behind you skating back at full speed as they know they can just coast for a bit afterwards and get back 25% of it quickly. On top of this, every 1v1 move slows your forward momentum making it even more difficult to perform anything without someone on top of you by the time you are out of that animation.
The highest scoring period in hockey is usually the second because in the second, the bench is on the other teams side of the ice which causes issues for line changing (3rd because of EN goals). Again there is no translation to this in the game and I think line changing would help benefit this.In relation to the injuries, you could make it so your player is actually limping or moving really slowly to get to the bench when he is injured and then when he has reached the bench, he could have his stamina return to full but have that small reduction in stats that we currently have in game. So now you have an advantage while he "goes for a change" and then a small advantage in stats while he is recovering from the injury itself.
I have nothing to add but just wanted to say I think all of these ideas are fantastic.
