Unbalanced goalies and low OVR teams
Hi, i have question, how its possible, that i am playing SB against 69 OVR team, with 65 OVR goalie and i have problem to score a goal, low rating goalies catching almost everything, also you are in ...
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Is the DDA in effect for SB? It definitely seems to be in Moments.
Also, you (or another moderator) said recently that the computer AI improves quality of play at times. How is that any different?
The OP is responding to his own gut feeling, which attributes successes to personal qualities and failures to external conditions. Everyone does it. I certainly do. But, that doesn’t mean what he is saying is unfair. It just means he can’t explain it, and would like to be able to do so. Can anyone at EA?
At the end of the day, people can’t play like the computer can. Not literally, and not practically. The delayed response of avatars, which does not affect computer avatars, can feel very deliberate. Is it?
EA_Aljo
Community Manager
Community ManagerI didn't say the AI improves. AI players will adjust their strategies. They also fight harder and take more risks when they're down. Their attributes and abilities do not change.
I think there is no purpose for AI to change strategies or take more risks (adjust game play) except to challenge the player more. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that, but it is definitely “improvement”.
Anybody who has played sports knows that changing focus or strategies while behind doesn’t make an athlete stronger or faster, but can still change the game completely. If the trailing team wins, that’s “improvement”.
Nobody is anthropomorphizing AI game play. But, anything that makes it “feel” like the AI is trying harder is also going to feel like “improvement” to the human player.
If you make Shaq angry and he starts dominating you under the bucket, he didn’t get taller. But he definitely got better. At your expense.
- EA_Aljo
They aren't getting stronger or faster. They are adjusting strategies and taking more chances. You're welcome to provide video showing your concerns.
I literally said I am sure the player attributes don’t change. They don’t have to. If the AI changes to a better strategy, or uses different parameters to determine successful actions leading to a lesser outcome for the human, the AI “improved.”
Perhaps I am unfairly reading your “feel free to post a video” sentence in the wrong tone, but it sure “feels” petty. No need for that. My comment was clear and rational. If I stated something incorrectly, please quote it so that I can correct it and own the error.
- @EA_Aljo our goalies are the most unbalanced thing in this game. Nobody can deny that. If you play the game that much as you say that you do, it's really easy to see that goalies are too good on lowest difficulty. A 69 or a 86 goalie, on rookie or superstar they all do the same phenomal and desparate saves on a regular bases.
I know it, everybody know it and you know it! You don't need any videos about that. Since 23 you guys have a really hard time finding your balance with goalies and it's a fact! - EA_Aljo
You're welcome to post any videos showing the issue you're reporting.
You have said that the player attributes do not change in a game. I agree. You have said that the AI can adjust game play under certain circumstances. I agree. What kind of video are you expecting? And what can I expect in return?
Where we seem to differ is in our concept of how the term “improvement” should be applied. Are you saying that playing the exact same team, with the exact same attributes (OVR), is not more difficult in superstar than in rookie? Or am I missing something? Do I need to post a video of that to show that superstar is harder than rookie, even if the player strength and speed is the same?
- EA_Aljo
When it comes to different difficulty levels, rookie vs superstar for example, the players have their reaction times increased. Their overall abilities, shooting, passing, puck control, etc., do not raise.
What you're accusing the game of doing is giving lower overall players some kind of artificial advantage. I get that you're not saying attributes are changed though. You also have to keep in mind confirmation bias. If someone loses to a lower rated team, they don't take accountability and blame the game because they think a higher OVR is guaranteed a win. If this happens multiple times, it's easy to say the game is at fault. That's really not the case at all though. It's more about how the game is played out on both sides and, quite often, AI players play better than human players.
I'm asking for video because I want to know why you feel the game is unfairly boosting lower rated teams. No, actually, I didn’t accuse the game of anything.
I appreciate the whole confirmation bias thing. I said the same. When I used to teach intro to psych, that concept was part of the course. I lose to lower OVR teams all the time. None of that is what I’m saying.
I will try this once more. I’d like to think you’re just not getting it, but thanks to EA’s character, it’s possible that you get it, but are being deliberately obfuscatory. Who knows.
The AI can change how difficult a team is to play without changing any player attributes. There is abundant evidence of that built in to the game. I don’t think any rational player can argue that it can’t happen. It’s a part of SB.
Often, when a human is dominating AI, little things happen that “feel” like the AI is getting advantages it didn’t before. The human AI teammates don’t check. The line changes at a stupid time. The goalie can’t save shots that it should. The AA opposition starts to make passes it didn’t even try before. Your idiot D man is out of position again and again. The computer wins. Of course, those things happen more often than we notice.
But, the question was asked : Did the AI adjust the game? You said it does do that by changing strategies, or aggression. It takes some chances. Maybe you didn’t mean it the way it sounded. Maybe you have no clue. That’s fine too. All I said is that it “feels” like the computer improved. Everything since then has been you arguing with yourself.
I don’t have video of feelings, but I am sure there is video of AI players doing impossible things. Somewhere I have a video of my goalie sliding backwards through the net, getting stuck behind it, and AI firing the puck into the now empty net. That’s an outdated example (19?), but it happens. When it helps the AI, it “feels” like an advantage. No video required.
- EA_Aljo
Thanks for the clarification. The best I can tell you is that this is not true:
@NewStart01 wrote:
Often, when a human is dominating AI, little things happen that “feel” like the AI is getting advantages it didn’t before. The human AI teammates don’t check. The line changes at a stupid time. The goalie can’t save shots that it should. The AA opposition starts to make passes it didn’t even try before. Your idiot D man is out of position again and again. The computer wins. Of course, those things happen more often than we notice.We'll just have to agree to disagree at this point. This is a theory people have had for many years and still, nobody has ever been able to prove it exists. It was also dismissed in court after giving access to our engineers. Thanks for the all the feedback.
Sounds good. What are we agreeing to disagree about, exactly?
- EA_Aljo
@NewStart01 wrote:
Often, when a human is dominating AI, little things happen that “feel” like the AI is getting advantages it didn’t before. The human AI teammates don’t check. The line changes at a stupid time. The goalie can’t save shots that it should. The AA opposition starts to make passes it didn’t even try before. Your idiot D man is out of position again and again. The computer wins. Of course, those things happen more often than we notice.
This is what we can agree to disagree on. What you're suggesting does not exist in NHL 24. Human AI teammates are not modified by the game to start playing worse and opposing AI players are not forced to artificially play better. They will change their strategies, which are the same strategies everyone has access to. They will also play more aggressive and take more chances. They are fighting harder when down, as real world teams do. Nothing is going on behind the scenes to force either side to play better or worse.
At this point, we've heavily gone in to ice tilt territory and need to lock the thread. This is why these discussions are not allowed as they just end up in a circle where we're repeating ourselves. There is absolutely no ice tilt, DDA, scripting, catch up logic, etc.
