Slowly becoming pay to win

I can’t listen to this brain dead community manager anymore. Who thought it was a good idea to add these preset builds in and practically ruin custom builds. “If you’re good at the game you know how to stop them” 🤡. Doesn’t mean they aren’t broken bro 

EA_Aljo​ I want to put my two cents in for this issue.

I agree that an organized team can potentially beat a team with prebuilds, but I feel these can easily become unfair.

I think the major problem is if custom builds that everyone has access to cannot come anywhere close to the premade builds for sale. For example, if it is impossible to closely replicate using a custom “sniper” build the premade “bullseye” sniper build with the character. Like one or two attribute points I’ll roll my eyes, but if it is a massive attribute difference that is 100% pay to win and a problem.

I have always felt uneasy with the custom builds (and the wild associated characters - aliens and moose?), but I’m very concerned these new prebuilt builds based on pro hockey players is massively stepping over the line. I am not happy about them at all.

They are just going to double down on it. What we need to do is not buy the game and support this garbage anymore. It's been said for years but enough is enough. It's affecting our wallets now.

Don't buy the game. Won't take too long for Super Major League Hockey or some other company to put out a product to fill the void.

I pretty much only play 6v6 (5s/6s) and have had no problem going up against people using pre-made builds. It's rare any of the regular people I play with are using them. We very frequently beat teams, or at least have a competitive game, against clubs using them.

If you can get some video showing how you frequently beat teams with pre-made builds, it would be good to see it.

A casual player that plays to wind down would have a better chance of playing with a pre-made build vs a custom build no?

RickyLaFlora wrote:

If you can get some video showing how you frequently beat teams with pre-made builds, it would be good to see it.

Are you saying that teams who have premade builds are so impossible to beat that we need video proof? 

RickyLaFlora wrote:

A casual player that plays to wind down would have a better chance of playing with a pre-made build vs a custom build no?

A casual player who plays to wind down should not be playing a competitive online videogame. 

And a better chance at what, exactly? These builds don't guarantee wins. You still need to be good.

Personally, I have no issue playing against a team of premade builds that people bought. It's like running up against all-star teams in OVP - you just know the people using those teams/builds are ultimately insecure about their playstyle and finding an exploit against them will be easier. 

I understand how people see these builds in the matchup screen and get it into their heads they're already at a disadvantage. Then you go into that game with that in mind and you start seeing every bad bounce and every bad decision you make as some kind of circumstance for playing against these builds. 

Some solid D and teamwork, and these builds are not much better than customs. 

"i don't personally have an issue so your argument is invalid".

Get it in our heads we're already at a disadvantage? No **bleep**: These builds are literally better than what we can create; Still being able to technically compete against them holds no weight

TTZ_Dipsy wrote:

"i don't personally have an issue so your argument is invalid".

I did not say this. You use of a  Strawman argument. is not cool my dude. 

TTZ_Dipsy wrote:

These builds are literally better than what we can create; Still being able to technically compete against them holds no weight

Anyone who is confident with their in-game skills doesn't give a single hoot about these premade builds. I could not care less if someone uses them. You couldn't pay me to care if an entire team is equipped with them. In fact, like I said - seeing players equipped with these builds just tells me they have gaps in their game and are using these builds as a way to try and get bailed out. These builds have their deficiencies too and aren't perfect. 

When players believe premade builds are overpowered, that perception can become self-reinforcing. Every lost puck battle, bounce, or goal against gets filtered through that assumption, and the build becomes the default explanation regardless of what actually caused the play to break down. I suspect online echo chambers will be rife with angst. 

Those of us with good stick skills will continue to be unphased by premade builds. 

You can purposely deflect by crying strawman all you want but your "just play better" mentality comes across as disingenuous. Aljo has already brought up concerns with these builds (not that he has much of a say), and the game has already doubled down with McJesus - The odds we'll actually see fully maxed out, 99's across the board builds are only getting higher and you want to just sweep this under the rug? This isn't the type of hill you should be dying on

"Anyone who is confident with their in-game skills doesn't give a single hoot about these premade builds."

hasty generalization fallacy..

Based on what data? How many people? Who was polled? I believe my skills are above average. I typically win far more than I lose. I had a 90% win rate in WoC a couple years ago, not as active now because of life.. i have an issue with these builds, others that I know do too.. I think I'm confident in my skills. They're confident in theirs. The "skill issue" argument is always the only leg you stand on, and it doesn't make sense when you use a universal "all" when it isn't "all" this is general logic. 

"You couldn't pay me to care if an entire team is equipped with them."

Why would someone pay you to do that? Did someone suggest that? Strawman? Not cool my dude.

"seeing players equipped with these builds just tells me they have gaps in their game and are using these builds as a way to try and get bailed out. These builds have their deficiencies too and aren't perfect. "

You get all that from someone's bought build huh... sounds like another generalization..

"When players believe premade builds are overpowered, that perception can become self-reinforcing. Every lost puck battle, bounce, or goal against gets filtered through that assumption, and the build becomes the default explanation regardless of what actually caused the play to break down. I suspect online echo chambers will be rife with angst."

True.. more reason to not have them.. but also they just ARE better.. you can argue "how much" but they are better.

"Those of us with good stick skills will continue to be unphased by premade builds."

Back to skill issue and universal wording again, imagine that.. you are of course aware this is ALSO a stawman.. right? It's using the strawman to attack rather than change or distort.. The person using the fallacy attacks Claim Y (the straw man ie. Stick skills) rather than claim X (the topic of this being P2W) of which I think I made a fairly good argument for. 

Let's stay on topic please. 🙏 

TTZ_Dipsy wrote:

You can purposely deflect by crying strawman all you want

Come on my dude - you can't just make up something I said and then create an argument about it. 

TTZ_Dipsy wrote:

your "just play better" mentality comes across as disingenuous.

How so?

TTZ_Dipsy wrote:

The odds we'll actually see fully maxed out, 99's across the board builds are only getting higher

Again - you don't get to just create a hypothetical and then argue against it. There is no build with 99's across the board and no indication EA plans on selling one. 

rsandersr47 wrote:

hasty generalization fallacy..

Based on what data?

Anyone who has played high level EASHL/WoC understands that outcomes are driven far more by gap control, defensive positioning, puck protection, timing, and reads than by what premade template a skater selected. This isn’t a claim that all confident players think the same, it’s a reflection of how experienced players actually evaluate games.

rsandersr47 wrote:

i have an issue with these builds, others that I know do too.

Labeling these builds as pay-to-win implies they negate fundamentals like positioning, reads, and decision-making. They don’t. Even if some premade attributes exceed custom limits, those stats don’t compensate for poor hockey sense, and they don’t determine outcomes on their own.

rsandersr47 wrote:

Why would someone pay you to do that? Did someone suggest that? Strawman? Not cool my dude.

That isn’t a strawman. I’m not misrepresenting your position and then arguing against it. I’m expressing that premade builds don’t factor into how I evaluate or play games.

rsandersr47 wrote:

True.. more reason to not have them.. but also they just ARE better.. you can argue "how much" but they are better.

Saying premade builds are “better” only matters if they actually decide games, and in World of Chel they don’t. While premade builds may have slightly higher attributes in certain areas, WoC outcomes are driven far more by positioning, reads, timing, and decision making than by isolated stats. Those builds don’t read passing lanes, manage gaps, prevent bad pinches, or make smart puck decisions for the player. 

What premades really do is raise the floor by offering convenient, forgiving setups, not raise the ceiling or override fundamentals. That makes them a convenience advantage, not a pay-to-win one. 

rsandersr47 wrote:

Back to skill issue and universal wording again, imagine that.. you are of course aware this is ALSO a stawman.. right? It's using the strawman to attack rather than change or distort.. The person using the fallacy attacks Claim Y (the straw man ie. Stick skills) rather than claim X (the topic of this being P2W) of which I think I made a fairly good argument for. 

Again... that’s not a strawman. I didn’t replace your P2W claim with “stick skills” — I explained why builds that don’t override fundamentals can’t be pay-to-win in the first place.

rsandersr47 wrote:

Let's stay on topic please. 🙏 

I'm sorry but the topic is "slowly becoming pay to win" so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

I do think selling these premades is super lame, so I’m not “dyinng” on any hills here or defending it. I just disagree that they make WoC “pay to win”