Balance: Both teams
I notice so many threads about plants being terrible or zombies being overpowered and yet there are also threads mentioning how the teams are damn near perfect balance. I personally believe the game ...
Forum Discussion
This, I like this guy. Somebody who seems to understand the general philosophy of the game. And to celebrate, I'm gonna add my own opinion
Peashooter: Generaly, the fan favourite from GW1 is still the most versitale class, only contested by Citron. Appart from the Commando Pea, they seem fine and I can usualy get the kill boast with every variant. I won't add my opinion on the Commando Pea, as I've already stated it in the Commando Pea specific balance thread.
Kernel Corn
As the Plants counterpart to the Footsoldier (NOT his exact mirror), I like him a lot and they are a good example for class balance. Corn has more HP than the Footsoldier, but he's slower. Corn deals more damage at any range (max. 100-70 DPS, while the Footsoldier only deals 90-70), but the Soldier has better accuracy over range, making him the better character over range) Abilitywise, I might add that the Butter Barrage is inferior to the Bigger, Badder Butter and could use a slight damage boost (25, to be exact) and a slightly increased AoE.
Chomper: The Toxic Chomper and the Chomp Thing could use a buff, but the rest of them are fine Don't use a purely defensive class on offense and expect to pubstomp everybody. Especally the Fire Chomper. If the bane of my existance gets a buff, I will cry and post a bad recension on Amazon.
Sunflower: Generaly, the Sunflower performs well in her intended support role. The key rule is: NEVER ENTER A 1on1 GUNFIGHT WITH A PLAYER CONTROLLED ZOMBIE. Always have a teammate as your bodyguard. He's going to deal and take the damage while you kerp him in the fight.
Gactus: The Camo Cactus could use a damage buff to mske him less dependant of his damage upgrade, but otherwise the Cacti are fine and generally are superior to Deadbeard as a sniper class.
Rose
While the default and Toxic Roses can still be a pain in the hands of a decent player, the charge variants could use a minor damage or mobility buff.
Citron
Appart from a buff to the Spin Dash, I don't think there is anything to add.
Scientist
If you can't deal with him, here are a few counters: Hosk Hup, EMPeach, Pea Gatling, Sunbeam, Burrow, Time Snare Goatify, Arcane Enigma, Hyper. The key is to predict the Scientist's move and counter it. Example: Oh *, Scientist Warps towards me, better mow him down with Husk Hop. See, it doesn't even require to much brain power (Pun intended). The Physicist is fine, I use him like the default and carefully pick 1v1 gunfights. I mean, he can do up to 90 points of damage with the ideal hit, altough 50-60 is more likely. I agree that Dr. Toxic is trash, and the Archeologist could equaly need some attention.
All-Star
Hockey Star, because 1 point of damage against a rooted Plant and fast overheat suck. But the reason for his head being so small in comparison to his body is that he's a traditional tank like the TF2 Heavy. He is a giant bullet sponge, but the head is small to prevent him from melting away agaibst concentrated firepower
Engineer
As long as their is no abominance like the pre-patch Plumber, I don't have any problems with these guys.
Footsoldier.
Fine. Also Tank Commander still deals around 40 points of eamage for a direct hit at long range. Sory, Scuba, but now you're the eternal second choice. And PopCap did an awesome job at nerfing the Super Commando.
Deadbeard
Sharkbite is to dominant in comparison to the lther, but they ate fine. While they are the inferior dniper in comparison with the Cactus, they are more versitile.
Super Brainz
I'd love to see a general HP nerf to 175 HP, as he completly outclasses the All-Star. I think we can all agree on the Electro Brainz issue.
Imp
Lower his HP back to 50, for the rest, he's perfectly fine and more of an annoyance than a broken character.
Peashooter: Generaly, the fan favourite from GW1 is still the most versitale class, only contested by Citron. Appart from the Commando Pea, they seem fine and I can usualy get the kill boast with every variant. I won't add my opinion on the Commando Pea, as I've already stated it in the Commando Pea specific balance thread.
Kernel Corn
As the Plants counterpart to the Footsoldier (NOT his exact mirror), I like him a lot and they are a good example for class balance. Corn has more HP than the Footsoldier, but he's slower. Corn deals more damage at any range (max. 100-70 DPS, while the Footsoldier only deals 90-70), but the Soldier has better accuracy over range, making him the better character over range) Abilitywise, I might add that the Butter Barrage is inferior to the Bigger, Badder Butter and could use a slight damage boost (25, to be exact) and a slightly increased AoE.
Chomper: The Toxic Chomper and the Chomp Thing could use a buff, but the rest of them are fine Don't use a purely defensive class on offense and expect to pubstomp everybody. Especally the Fire Chomper. If the bane of my existance gets a buff, I will cry and post a bad recension on Amazon.
Sunflower: Generaly, the Sunflower performs well in her intended support role. The key rule is: NEVER ENTER A 1on1 GUNFIGHT WITH A PLAYER CONTROLLED ZOMBIE. Always have a teammate as your bodyguard. He's going to deal and take the damage while you kerp him in the fight.
Gactus: The Camo Cactus could use a damage buff to mske him less dependant of his damage upgrade, but otherwise the Cacti are fine and generally are superior to Deadbeard as a sniper class.
Rose
While the default and Toxic Roses can still be a pain in the hands of a decent player, the charge variants could use a minor damage or mobility buff.
Citron
Appart from a buff to the Spin Dash, I don't think there is anything to add.
Scientist
If you can't deal with him, here are a few counters: Hosk Hup, EMPeach, Pea Gatling, Sunbeam, Burrow, Time Snare Goatify, Arcane Enigma, Hyper. The key is to predict the Scientist's move and counter it. Example: Oh *, Scientist Warps towards me, better mow him down with Husk Hop. See, it doesn't even require to much brain power (Pun intended). The Physicist is fine, I use him like the default and carefully pick 1v1 gunfights. I mean, he can do up to 90 points of damage with the ideal hit, altough 50-60 is more likely. I agree that Dr. Toxic is trash, and the Archeologist could equaly need some attention.
All-Star
Hockey Star, because 1 point of damage against a rooted Plant and fast overheat suck. But the reason for his head being so small in comparison to his body is that he's a traditional tank like the TF2 Heavy. He is a giant bullet sponge, but the head is small to prevent him from melting away agaibst concentrated firepower
Engineer
As long as their is no abominance like the pre-patch Plumber, I don't have any problems with these guys.
Footsoldier.
Fine. Also Tank Commander still deals around 40 points of eamage for a direct hit at long range. Sory, Scuba, but now you're the eternal second choice. And PopCap did an awesome job at nerfing the Super Commando.
Deadbeard
Sharkbite is to dominant in comparison to the lther, but they ate fine. While they are the inferior dniper in comparison with the Cactus, they are more versitile.
Super Brainz
I'd love to see a general HP nerf to 175 HP, as he completly outclasses the All-Star. I think we can all agree on the Electro Brainz issue.
Imp
Lower his HP back to 50, for the rest, he's perfectly fine and more of an annoyance than a broken character.
Going to edit my post, you're absolutely right.
And going to take it easy on the forums now, tired of saying the same thing over and over again, would be nice to see all the bugs and glitches fixed and see how that plays out before giving proper balance changes. Chances are, there will be another set of bugs that come with whatever they do next.
By the way, my comment about more threads was sort of aimed at you. I mean you've made two similar ones, sort of...
http://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/Lets-talk-balance/m-p/5248109#U5248109
http://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/Leave-the-Chomper-alone/m-p/5246491#U5246491
But if you wanted to start fresh, then don't mind me.
@Zaheen1337 wrote:Going to edit my post, you're absolutely right.
And going to take it easy on the forums now, tired of saying the same thing over and over again, would be nice to see all the bugs and glitches fixed and see how that plays out before giving proper balance changes. Chances are, there will be another set of bugs that come with whatever they do next.
By the way, my comment about more threads was sort of aimed at you. I mean you've made two similar ones, sort of...
http://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/Lets-talk-balance/m-p/5248109#U5248109
http://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/Leave-the-Chomper-alone/m-p/5246491#U5246491
But if you wanted to start fresh, then don't mind me.
You hit the nail on the head when mentioning that there will just be more issues after the next patch. Which is why drastic changes should not be made all at once. Add a variant Sunflower wit ha shotgun ability would be a good trial and error review to see if it works. PopCap needs to make sure buffing a weaker team wont make them overpowered and have the circle of patch keep going.
I made those threads because I honestly wanted to talk about the different versions of balance, because no offense but sometimes views get so narrow it clouds judgement. I also think Chomper is fine and if I am good at him now, buffing him will make people who love him gods.
So lets try to keep balance changes minimal that we want without overloading popcap lol.
I see alots of people suggesting shotgun for sunflower, but I'll make my state about it that it a no no for me, Sunflower primary weapon is actually nowhere near bad for fighting at close range right now. Giving her a shotgun would actually hurt her effectiveness at longer range more when anything, as she will be forced to aim for that which slow her quite a bit.
Of course,I don't mind a variant with that exact gimmick,but changing all sunflower to be a pseudo scientist is just bleh as well as being too much work to balance those anyway.
(Additionally,it good to have some good balance talk for once and not just insult being thrown everywhere,I'll read those more deeply in a bit and respond to those with more detail)
@Boolerex wrote:I see alots of people suggesting shotgun for sunflower, but I'll make my state about it that it a no no for me, Sunflower primary weapon is actually nowhere near bad for fighting at close range right now. Giving her a shotgun would actually hurt her effectiveness at longer range more when anything, as she will be forced to aim for that which slow her quite a bit.
Of course,I don't mind a variant with that exact gimmick,but changing all sunflower to be a pseudo scientist is just bleh as well as being too much work to balance those anyway.
(Additionally,it good to have some good balance talk for once and not just insult being thrown everywhere,I'll read those more deeply in a bit and respond to those with more detail)
I like you boolerex lol. I try not to lean towards one team even though a lot was strengthen some plants and weaken some zombies. But overall, I want many peoples opinions and reasonable ones. I know many people want a class as a whole buffed and that is just so way too drastic a change.
- You and your ideas are starting to get on multiple people's nerves. Your so stubborn and do not want to reasoned with. Your ideas are horrible and they would make this game boring. You keep trying to make the sides mirror each other, too bad they don't. In PvZGW both sides were not just replicas of each other and every class had its things that were original which is one of the things that made the game fun - every class had its unique things. Please rethink your ideas (some of them don't even make sense).
Plants didn't need to attack and capture points in the first game, if that was aimed at me.
Open your eyes and wake up.
Just because a Fire Flower won every boast once, doesn't mean anything. Do you think he was using a controller? I see players on YouTube who play in XBox and they're using a keyboard and mouse, it makes a massive difference and it isn't a realistic assumption to say things are balanced. Maybe the other team just sucked and had no good players on it? Game mode and other factors should be taken into consideration.
Also on the PS4, I'm yet to see a Fire Flower on any boast since release, maybe a revive/heal boast but who cares about those, with that many plants dying left right and centre, it's no surprise they should win that one.
I am also yet to see anyone win a vanquish master boast when I'm playing Zoologist, haven't really played broken Brainz or Imps online yet, don't really want to make more people rage quit.
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Imagine you take an average of everyone's K\D ratio, win ratio, boast ratio, time played on every class ratio, death ratio, of everyone and every single ratio of every class.
I think you'll find we both agree on something else as well, one side will be dominating the other side, I'm talking all platforms too.
Im happy with people disagreeing, if they're having a different experience, or playing on a different platform completely then of course their experience is going to be different. XBox is going to have more keyboard and mouse players than a PS4 would, not many would have wanted to pay for the XIM4 and that Hori keyboard and mouse is a bit crappy, I know because I have one and don't use it.
- I was just mentioning I have see it done on a console and am certain she wasn't using a mouse. A few people playing with mouse and on YouTube pales in comparison to the amount of people playing with controller. (assumption based on convenience)
Whether are balanced or not are all based on opinion. I think things are close to balance and you think they are not. Neither of us alone can know the correct way to save the game. Me and you can not alone design 'Perfect balance'.
Heal and Revive master is very important as it shows who truly tried to save the team. I've seen a sunflower get near 100 revives and we won that. Healing was in the 3k I believe. She was amazing. Support is extremely important.
One day our paths will cross. Agent pea vs Zoologist. He's my trump. When plants aren't winning and I switch to him. Always on top lol
