Balancing: Team Plants
Welcome plant vs zombies lovers and haters...😉
I am pleased to present you with my ideas, balance tweaks, and potentially new abilities for the best team!
It has been a hectic launch for every...
Forum Discussion
I did enjoy playing camo cactus occasionally from time to time, and in this game I tried to grind to get her into a usable state, so that I could try to play her. However 5 shots and only 60 dmg crit whilst having no hip fire and extended zoom just meant she was crippled by her specialization. On the zombies side I occasionally use Shark bite if I feel like sniping, but I usually use whatever I feel like.
You feel that the zombies are just all around better, and I don't agree with that. Starting with the cactus vs Dead Beard issue:
Dead Beard has a shotgun weapon in CQC that makes him unique in the fact that to counter him as a ranged class you actually have to engage at mid range just outside of his shotgun's reach. This leaves him to awkwardly fumble with ADS whilst you pepper away. However because of this he's not as strong a Sniper as Cactus.
His highest base dmg variant, Shark Bite does 35 dmg on crit, which is just 2 more from the regular cactus's crit headshot with the dmg upgrade. However unupgraded future cactus can do up to 100 dmg on a crit shot whilst also doing more splash dmg if she misses. Dmg for Dmg Cactus is better at range, so deadbeard trades long-range specialization for a close range weapon.
Cactus abilities lend themselves to locking down an area and staying in a secure place, additionally with really carful manipulation, you can combine the armored wallnut with your drone to let you get to higher places, whilst deadbeard doesn't have this utility, but his drone is on the whole stronger than either of cactus's drones. This I feel should prolly be the only thing looked at, with either buffing base cactus drone health to 20, nerving parrot drone health to 5 or a myriad of other ways.
Deadbeard can't do as well as cactus in the open since the only way he can generate cover for himself is to hide inside his barrel. His other abilities lend himself to needing good sightline, but without cover or protection he can be snuck up on easily and disposed of since he can't really build a sniper nest for himself.
Now deadbeard vs chomper is interesting since deadbeard, like you said, has 2 abilities that can protect him from an instant chomp, a third that chomper's can barely defend against, and a shotgun that makes walking up to spray/bite problematic.
What does chomper have to counter this? Oh yeah 2 cc abilities that stop abilities and slow aim, and one of them prevents shooting whilst doing a lot of dmg. Additionally he has one of the best iniates/escapes in the game that can only be countered by one ability that makes him immune to dmg whilst he closes the distance. Now in the chomper v deadbeard scenario, regardless of the type, bite v spray, he wants to go for the swallow to negate the massive dmg he could potentially take from trying to goop then eat the deadbeard with his shotgun. He can do this by using goop then burrow on an unsuspecting pirate, or if the pirate isn't paying careful attention you can just walk up and eat. However the aware deadbeard has the edge by using his 2 abilities to negate the instant chomp, however if he uses his cannon then chomper just has to pop up to bite/spray to death as headboard gave up a lot of his cdc dps for safety from an instant bite.
Tl;dr, Chomper v Deadbeard is dependent on player skill of both classes, since both have abilities that counter the other.
sunflower v scientist, the scientist has better close range dmg, but sunflower is much better at being linked up to a teammate and providing saturation fire, additionally the sun beam is really effective at bursting down high hp targets.
corn v foot soldier, the corn has the advantage in cqc to mid range with a higher health pool, and better dmging abilities.
rose v engineer, the rose trades effective area dmg for powerful cc abilities and an invulnerability escape. Engineer has better mobility and better area dmg with his turret and main weapon
The plants team are not weaker than their zombies counterparts, they're just different. This is actually really well done as asymmetrical balance goes.
Game has overall good balance except for some smaller things like Electro Brainz shenanigans and maybe a small buff to some of the Rose variants.
Maybe OP has a play style that doesn't suit the plant team?
- ApprovedI definitely think zombies have a lot better tanking capabilities with brains, allstar, and mech. I figure the fact that they are 2 to 3 times as big as the plamts and much easier to hit was the reasoning for all the health. Aside from that and the electro beam I don't think the game is that unbalanced right now.
Many might think or assume that, but my play style worked fine in the first game. In fact I was spawn camping the zombies, that's usually how aggressive I am? It's not a matter of play style, it's a matter of balance.
Anyway I'm going to give these suggestions an overhaul and when I do I'll give the thread another bump 🙂
Thanks for the feedback, I think Sunfollower needs a bit more than that, instead of giving her a warp maybe she should have twice the movement speed of any other class in the game, so at least she can run, get to fallen comrades quicker and actually have a chance to maintain a distance if one has been closed. She is a sitting duck compared to every other class, even Rose can turn invincible and respawn just to pee someone off.
I will reply to you later, naturally you're going to use the highest damage sniper but the class in general is built around defence, and with new classes added the abilities are redundant. I feel like one of her abilities should increase damage by 50% to everyone around it, and she should get both a shotgun and a plant turret to sit on like the Pirate.
QoL fixes:
- Add a/move the respawn barrier for Zombies on Herbal Assault maps (Moon Base Z, Zomburbia) on the first point so the Zombies cannot literally Spawn Camp
-Reduce effectiveness of Husk Hop on barreled Deadbeards (Seriously, why does that ignore the damage resist? He's firing bullets, not busting a bunker)
-Fix the Burrow camera as well as its general usability
-Fix the wonky hitbox on the "Parrot Drone"
-Add new, varied animations for Cosmic Brainz's melee attacks. He REALLY shouldn't just have ONE animation for each stage of charge makes his attacks feel stale and static.
Peashooter:
Mostly fine. A few tweaks for a few Variants though.
-Buff the Commando pea's RoF or Damage. (see THIS thread for more in depth ideas)
-Buff the projectile speed for the Electro Pea so he's usable.
Sunflower:
-Slight hp buff?
-Buff the Alien Flower's damage, possibly the damage the spore clouds do.
Chomper:
-Increase burrow time slightly?
-Slight Damage resist when chewing.
-Burrow hides Chomper's icon from his enemies during and a few seconds after exiting.
-Make the Toxic Chomper usable! Buff his DPS at the very least. (or his damage aura)
-Chomp Thing could use some love in the DPS department for his Health.
-Give a light heal per bite for Chompula?
Cactus:
She doesn't need a bloody shotgun people! (Besides, you pretty much got that with the Petrified Cactus)
-Drastically increase needle damage to enemies at close ranges
-Lower the scope-in speed slightly (More dramatically so for the Camo Cactus)
-Increased needle travel speed so less Target leading
-Add a light damage resist ability under the tallnut slot for offensive purposes?
-Increase clip size for Camo Cactus or decrease her reload speed.
Kernel Corn:
-Increase move speed slightly.
-Reduce the damage or fire rate of the BBQ Corn - it should be a SIDEGRADE, not a straight upgrade from Stock.
-Increase functionality of the Mob Cob's penetrating shots. Make the Kernels explode in a light cone behind maybe?
Citron:
-Increase Peel Shield's effectiveness slightly
-Slight duration increase in the Orange/Frosty beams?
-Buff the damage of the Electro Citron's uncharged shots (Four damage is NOT okay)
Rose:
-Buff hp by 25 again
Scientist:
He's actually fine for the most part. He just seems terrifying because he wasn't used much in GW1 - and the current Superhero heavy meta lets him slip by because of all the confusion.
-Reduce the Zoologist's clip size by two.
-Reduce the Marine Biologist's Fire Rate and Ammo Count
Imp:
Slightly increase the cooldown on the mech. (I'm not talking about duration - but the time before he can call one in)
Deadbeard:
-Make his hitbox a little more forgiving when targeting him.
-Nerf Captain Sharkbite's total ammo count and reload speed. Alternatively, just nerf his fire rate slightly. He shouldn't be able to play just as safe as Stock.
-Increase the ammo count of Flameface and Cpt. Cannon - buff the damage on both their hilariously bad close range attack variants.
-Increase functionality of Flameface's penetrate attack.
-Possibly make Cpt. Cannon feel a little less clunky by buffing his splash radius?
Super Brainz:
He should be a Melee focused character with a weak, supplementary ranged attack. Even Superheroes should have a weakness or two after all!
-Reduce Max HP to 175
-Reduce Damage/Duration of Super and Electro Brainz's beam. (possibly increase melee damage as a result)
-Reduce the Damage of Cosmic Brainz's "blaster" to 9 or 10, (reduced duration as well) increase uncharged fist damage, reduce time for charging fists.
@Zaheen1337 wrote:I will reply to you later, naturally you're going to use the highest damage sniper but the class in general is built around defence, and with new classes added the abilities are redundant. I feel like one of her abilities should increase damage by 50% to everyone around it, and she should get both a shotgun and a plant turret to sit on like the Pirate.
Cactus doesn't need a shotgun, that would make her a straight upgrade to Deadbeard, since her base damage is close to Sharkbite, the most damaging of the Deadbeards. Deadbeard has sacrificed pure sniping for a close range weapon, cactus is a pure sniper. It's asymmetric balance that adds uniqueness to the game. Symmetric balance is easy but boring.
If you want to add an ability to her, give her a deployable one way projectile shield similar in function to the orange's peel shield and give it 125-175 HP. Friendlies could fire through it while enemy fire would impact on the shield damaging it. However the cost of this "Holo Shield" is that it doesn't impede movement like the other shields do, as in players could walk harmlessly through it, enemy or not. Armored Nut would still have higher Hp and impede vertical movement, while the regular nut would allow you to deploy 1 more and better impede horizontal movement.
In terms of balancing you have to think in little steps, slight dmg buffs/nerfs/ changes to abilities/cooldowns. Drastic Changes will negatively affect gameplay since it becomes a fundamentally new game to learn every patch
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