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Iron_Guard8's avatar
4 years ago

Class Discussion: Space Cadet

On to the characters introduced in BfN! I’m going to start with my girl; the zombie Space Cadet. I don’t have a main in any of the games as I tend to play everything, but with some of the BfN changes making me enjoy classes like Engineer less, and with less choices thanks to no variants, Space Cadet is the closest to a main I’ve ever gotten in the PvZ shooters.

She has a decent amount of health in her normal form, about what one would expect, and I love having a floaty double jump. This makes her great for jumping puzzles and just getting around in around in general. I’m not a huge fan of sprinting but her sprint animation is a personal favorite.

Her main weapon is fine, it has some guidance built-in which it doesn’t really need and due to how spotty the tracking/auto-aiming is in BfN in the first place, wouldn’t be a problem if it was taken away in the next game. I like how she smacks her little robot pal to reload it too. Can’t say much good or bad here, another weapon that doesn’t feel too good or underpowered.

Gravity Smash is fun and appropriately silly as you turn your capsule upside down and slam into the ground. It has some serious camera and movement issues, especially if you activate it very high in the air or low to the ground or if the terrain height varies a lot, andthat should be fixed, but it’s an ability with a lot of risk, but is fun to use. Fixing its issues would really help with this ability, and while it can cause a lot of damage, it’s not all that hard to avoid as it takes time to work and is very obvious what she’s doing. Just fixing the problems with it would make it fine.

Big Bang Beam can be a little hard to hit your target with but with the Bullseye upgrade, you get some damage from that targeting part of the beam. It gets a weird bug once in a while where it acts like a horizontal Crater Maker and makes it very hard to hit with but the damage it causes is extreme. I’ve only seen it a couple times and in PvE, but it’s something that needs to be fixed for a new game. While it causes a decent amount of damage, it also is obvious when you use it so it’s not all that hard to avoid and is single target so I can’t see a big reason to change this, beyond fixing the aforementioned bug.

I’ll address the station last of her abilities as I feel it needs to go to let the team bring Acorn/Oak (who is next) and Imp/Mech in line with each other. Not that we can’t have uneven ‘mechs’ on each side, but that the due to how things work; the Oak is solid on its own and in fact, being a treetop Acorn is currently a death sentence in PvP (not as bad in PvE), but while a single Cadet station isn’t all that big of a deal, it becomes far more powerful when more Cadets ride, especially at 4, and then add on an overhealing Scientist, and 4 shields, and it’s extremely nasty! Such a station can be taken down, it being slow and huge help, but it’s far better than an Oak with 3 treetop riders. It has been nerfed but is such a problem child; with instant inflation/deflation, stacking shields, and its huge combined health pool, mean that it would be better to change this, and let the Imp’s mech return to the ‘big machine’ of the zombie side. I’ve mentioned this before, but use an ability similar to Marksman Sniper’s Orbital Strike ability in SWTOR (which I used to play), which is also an EA game; The cadet calls on her headset and a targeting spot appears nearby, telegraphing that the crater maker beam of an orbiting zombie space station is going to hit there, giving plants time to move, the beam then hits that area and traces a random line of high, but limited in size, AoE damage, a slow moving circle that is centered on that obvious targeting reticle on the ground, and then the beam ends after a couple of seconds. This keeps the space station and beam theme in the game, without it being too powerful or needing to rely on teammates to form the station. Giving it an obvious telegraph means too that plants have time to get out of there as well. The beam would continue its short but dangerous path even if the Space Cadet is vanquished since it’s independent of her once activated, and could get some revenge vanquishes. The other thing about the station is that the Imp’s Mech and the Oak all feel like they have their own personalities, especially the Oak, but even the Mech, and especially the variants in GW2, all come off like their own characters. The station lacks this, and that’s part of why I don’t like it as much as the Oak and Mech, even if I love Space Cadet, and that’s another reason to get rid of it.

I don’t have a lot to say about the station rider shield and torpedo abilities as I want the station and riders removed for a new game. The shields aren’t that big of a deal most of the time, even with 3 of them, but if stacked can be a pain (worse with an overhealed station). The torpedoes can be very effective but can also simply crash into terrain right after launch, especially with an erratic driver, so removing them wouldn’t hurt much anyway.

I actually like the team up idea, it’s the PvZ shooter team showing us that they can break out of the normal mold of online shooters, and be really creative but it’s been an issue in BfN this entire time. I’ll cover my Oak changes when I get there, they actually need less alteration than my Space Cadet plans, but keeping crater maker as a powerful, but limited radius and obvious attack, allows her to keep her theme and to use the weapon effects and sounds already in the game but avoid the issues with the station and getting teammates to cooperate. I’ve had to bail from stations due to the pilot deciding to use a packed station to spawn camp plants in Giddy Park, or because they were driving so erratically that I couldn’t hit anything, or they would jump off and suddenly I’m piloting the thing in the middle of a firefight. Great idea, love the character and want her in the next game for sure, but the team idea has been problematic.

Variants could include a Solar Cadet that replaces her long ranged beam weapon with a short-ranged flame throwing cone weapon, an Asteroid Cadet that fires shot gun blasts of rocks where the damage drops off at range pretty rapidly, and a Nebula Cadet that fires AoE projectiles at a slower rate of fire and lower ammo capacity than the default version. Space Cadet is a character in BfN, that barring the station issues, has always felt like she’s in a good place as far as playing her and balance. I’d like to keep that for a new game, with obviously any balancing she does need, and will need at least some to replace the station with the crater maker orbital strike ability, but she’s in a good place right now. Removing the tracking on her main weapon would be a slight nerf that I’d have zero issue with losing and most/all variants wouldn’t need or want anyway.

5 Replies

  • @Iron_Guard8This is a character that has grown on me in a way.

    Her primary having homing has all but destroyed past close range and despite having good health her weapon holds her back and most people seem to agree that the actual cadet ain't all that.

    I'm fine with gravity smash but like many other bfn abilities the camera needs to be fixed and fast.

    I like how her weapon is a zombot.

    The beam is just meh. I don't hate it but I think a more interesting ability could definetly take its place that would be more line with the cadets look like say a meteor shield or escape option featuring her holding onto her flying zombot drone.

    And now space station, ughhhhh.

    I love how oak got obliterated with nerfs and bugs but station got to roam around just fine.

    Her primary is far too accurate and allows her to countersnipe far too effectively.

    She can refresh her abilities and all the other cadets as well.

    It spawns almost instantly unlike oak or mech.

    I remember when the stations beam could SHRED BOSSES in one go. They nerfed it but it still turns every bossfight in bfn even easier than normal. It's conviently also the perfect anti oak and riders weapon.

    It's worse when they combine. 4 cadets can practically be invincible unless the plant team specifically focus them. Its worse when you realize they can be overhealed and given a costar from wizard and unlock wallhacks so you can never take them by surprise in already hard to take flank route map design.

    The shields can be refreshed and can be stacked so you might as well require the power of the mega flower itself to destroy them. They also protect each individual cadet unlike acorns.


    The torpedoes are kinda meh but they still allow the station to attack while out of sight for significant damage.

    When you finally wittle down their health the cadets just pop off and book it because they can.

    Oak is also vulnerable to electricity which harms his riders while stations shieods protect them from snapdragon. Leaks also showed a toxic zombie coming in bfn which meant the zombies qpuld have the two damage affects which could spread to teamates so another blow against acorn riders.

    I'm working my way to the teamwork section on my retrospective and my thoughts right now are well: they wanted to introduce more team play oriented in overwatch esque mechanics but with characters that require stacking such as the team play characters and swarm they all but shot themselves in foot in execution not to mention the problems we already have with upgrades and Overheal. Team play should really be a team be encouraged into working together to achieve a common goal rather forcing teamplay mechanics onto them in a bunch of half baked mechanics that were clearly not thought out since day 1.

    Oak and mech feel more alive because they are. Z mech is established as sentient in gw2 with Steve and his call animation has him protecting the imp, same with all of his variants in other ways. If they wanted their plant z mech they should've just made oak slightly different like having a bazooka like weapon while being able to regen and faster movement but with less health and no armor.

    Too bad we never got this character in a game with space maps or space themed variants. Imagine playing as cadet, astronaut, z7, and cosmic brainz against the future fighters team comp from gw2 solo play. Such a waste.

  • Iron_Guard8's avatar
    Iron_Guard8
    Legend
    4 years ago

    @stukapooka I don't mind her primary as it doesn't feel OP and the homing isn't all that hot, so dropping it would just allow us to see how it works on its own. It's not huge damage, but not awful, and I think she'd be fine.

    All your points about the station are exactly why I propose to drop the station and tomorrow with Acorn/Oak, why I will post about dropping the treetop riders there and balance acorn/oak with imp/mech to be more of a counter to each other. I do like the idea of her calling on an actual space station though, so that's where the beam I posted here comes from, we've discussed these ideas before too. Oak and Station are supposed to be more or less direct counters and Oak can be nasty, but station is just better, and especially with riders, and you can just activate/leave it whenever you want without timers or penalties. Not a great place to be.

    Since I'd drop the Attack/Defense/Support thing, she'd not need a classification anymore. 

    I'd love Space Cadet on Lunar Landing, Moon Base Z, and other space maps!

  • stukapooka's avatar
    stukapooka
    Legend
    4 years ago

    @Iron_Guard8Just dropping the homing would leave us with a pretty balanced weapon.

    A orbital beam strike ability traveling in a set direction would offer a nice zombie alternative to butter barrage.

    I kind of miss the map aesthetics from 2 in general as we fought in very interesting locations across time and space and while I don't mind simpler gw1 esque maps, bfn completely dropping the unique areas of 2 and retreading on gw1 ideas (especially cactus canyon and driftwood shores) feels very dissapointing as I think it gives the series more ideas to work with.

  • @Iron_Guard8 For what it's worth, I find her base form better. I got more vanquishes with that than transforming into a station. Yes, station is more powerful, but against skilled players, base form for the win. 🙂 Believe it or not, I use rose to counterattack the station(1 player without allies). I just jump around and shoot around corners. Or just use juiced upgrade with Citron.

    In the end, it's kind of op against new players when using the station. Other than that, a welcome edition to BfN.
  • Iron_Guard8's avatar
    Iron_Guard8
    Legend
    4 years ago

    @JusticeHeroX I prefer just being a Cadet as well and don't use the station much anymore as a single cadet station isn't all that hot, whereas an Oak that lacks treetop riders is fine. I'm quite sure that part of why they're different like this is to make them have different dynamics to further differentiate them from each other. The Station gets much more powerful as more Cadets join, and a solo station is not very good, but the stacking health, shields, and firepower of a station with 2-4 is vastly better than that solo one. For the Oak, the Oak itself doesn't gain health and the individual treetop riders can be taken out singly, and while they can heal and overheal while also using their sap traps and firing, it's just not as good. A solo Oak is basically a mech that has individual support for each Acorn on its head; the Station becomes far tougher and powerful as Cadets jump on and you can't chip away at the team unlike the Oak.

    I like the station but there's too many issues with it and balancing it with the mech and Oak. Unless they retool how these 3 'big guys' will be balanced to each other and any possible new ones, it's best to drop the station so the Mech and Oak can be balanced against each other, without having to take the station into account as well.

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