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Iron_Guard8's avatar
4 years ago

Class Discussion: Sunflower

Time for the Sunflower! I’m starting with the original characters, then the ones added in GW2, and then the new BfN characters.

I love Sunflower. She’s adorable, I like her voice (both the GW and the different BfN versions), she’s fun to play, extremely useful for her team, and can be quite the vanquisher too. Her biggest weaknesses are her low health (100 most of the time, 110 in GW2 after a patch, with Vampire Flower at 75; without the health upgrades in GW2 that is), and her large ‘head’ make her easy to crit. BfN not differentiating speeds between characters means she loses her inherent speed bonus she had in the GW games, but you can use upgrades to get bonuses here, although they nerfed one of those upgrades, I have one of my 3 builds there saved with the speed upgrades, which makes her kind of obnoxious to take out, especially when one considers BfN’s more powerful healing.

Reviving is something they’re great at in GW, even better at GW2 thanks to full health revives (I’d argue it’s too good in GW2 due to this; reviving teammates at full health can be a serious pain to deal with, especially with multiple Sunflowers (and Scientists zombie side)), but BfN changes this to let teammates help out which I actually like. Being able to work together like that and after they patched it, all getting XP is a great idea and Sunflowers still are great to have there to heal the revived teammate quickly. I’d be down with a hybrid GW1/BfN model for the next game, I’d rather not return to quick full health revives that GW2 went with.

Her main weapon varies over the variants of course, but the basic version attack is a nice, accurate, rapid fire attack. BfN’s version is similar to the default Sunflower in the GW games and also much like Stuffy Flower’s attack in sound effect, although the healing effect of vanquishing zombies with your primary weapon in GW2 is an upgrade for the sunbeam in BfN. There’s not a lot to say about this aspect of the character, it generally works well and is easy to use. The variants are largely decent as far as the weapon goes, although Mystic Flower is parsed as the best damage when charged, I’ve always been partial to Alien Flower and Vampire Flower.

Heal Beam and rainbow heal beam. Now Rainbow heal beam doesn’t actually change any numerical values which is a bit of a shame. If kept for a new game, maybe have it tick more often for smaller ticks as that would match the difference between the regular heal flower and the rainbow heal flower in GW2. BfN keeps it but of course adds overhealing and an upgrade that lets it branch to a 2nd ally. Again, I don’t feel there’s much I can add here beyond the odd mix in BfN of having powerful healing but not giving it enough XP. It’s weird being heal master and being low on the leaderboard, after GW/GW2 and focusing on healing/reviving with only a few vanquishes and still being at or near the top. I’d like to see healing return to GW/GW2 levels both in power and XP. I don’t hate overhealing but I’d be fine if it went away. Even after patching it to slowly decay, it’s been a problem for PvP.

Sunbeam/Solar Flare Beam haven’t changed all that much over the games, getting armor (or at least more armor) since GW1. I tend to use the solar flare beam over the base Sunbeam but like Gatling Pea, I don’t use these modes all that much (I didn’t get the ‘vanquish 10 players with the Gatling pea in one match’ achievement in GW till 2018!) Recharge lets you keep the beam going for a long time in BfN, which is great for bosses in PvE, but I really don’t like planting myself for long periods of time in PvP. It’s why when I play Cactus/Deadbeard in any of the games that I tend to shoot and move elsewhere. It makes you too easy of a target and if you’re doing well with it, people really want to take you out! BfN also makes it very shiny and obvious, something I’m mostly indifferent too. I can’t see all that much to change here for the next game.

Heal Flower/Dark Flower/Rainbow Heal Flower/Sunny Side Up. Here is where things get interesting and heavily contentious. I’m pretty sure that at least part of the reason they took the pots away in BfN and gave us the little heal drops is I’m sure anyone who wanted to put their flower down in GW/GW2 has encountered the issue where the game won’t let you put it down as something/someone is in the way! Sometimes it’s so bad it really ticks you off so that was a decent reason to change it. That being said, I still prefer the flowers as they can be shot, and they don’t give as much burst healing as the BfN ability. Dark Flower is a fun alternate ability but you don’t see it all that often, even after they tweaked it in GW2. I use the rainbow flower the most in GW2, although I believe the overall math is better for the regular heal flower. Fun trivia tip: for the GW2 quest to plant 15 pots, you can plant the consumable kind, or as any Sunflower place the regular or dark flower for credit, but the rainbow flower doesn’t count for that quest for some reason. I like the flowers over sunny side up for a new game, or they can make them alternates, but the healing of sunny side up needs to be looked at like all healing in BfN.

With healing and overhealing being so good in BfN, and Sunflower not being changed all that much, we still had a serious attrition problem with folks that love the character not playing anymore. Asabaida is the biggest one for me as we played quite a bit of BfN together and the way Sunflower works in BfN was something she really didn’t like. But yet, I don’t see her as being all that bad to play to be honest. I wish folks hadn’t left so they could go into more detail about why they really don’t like BfN’s Sunflower, as it's something that has to be taken into consideration for a new shooter. Healers are often the least played class in these games and you tend to see more Scientists than Sunflowers due to their ‘assault’ nature, although Sunflowers can do very well in that regard too, just not as obvious about it. I like healing but one of many reasons I left OW was being forced to play a healer so often as no one wants to do it there, it’s always been easier to get Scientists and Sunflowers in the PvZ shooters, so I’d like it to stay that way.

1 Reply

  • @Iron_Guard8 I feel like people were unsatisfied with bfn sunflower because she's not really good, yeah healing is more powerful but her actual attack potency has been spayed to the point where she cannot fend for herself in direct combat against any zombie class, and this is made worse by the additions of sprinting, Overheal, regen changes, new classes like 80s who can flick her three times than delete her from existence, and shields that take forever to destroy. In gw1/2 should could extremely deadly if her shots landed kinda like how tf2 medic's syringe gun can shred you suprisingly quick if it lands.

    Multiple people being able to revive at once kinda takes away from a class being the only one able to do it faster. Same with scientist.

    The upgrade system also allows classes to heal themselves and even gain Overheal so a healer feels redundant when you can just bash your way to more health. And like I've said about new characters, the more there are the less likely you'll get a certain character on the team once you exceed 12 playable characters as the roster has become bloated (we're also hopeing no one plays 2 of the same character).

    Her sunbeam also has dropped off beacuse its not really useful in bfn due to the close quarter nature of a lot of the maps and its again one of only TWO weapons with damage fall off. I did enjoy using it in gw before a soldier blew me off the face of the earth that is. Not too mention a lot more counters than just zpg exist for the zombie team to use nowadays.

    I remember hardly ever seeing sunflowers in bfn past founders. Sunflower was number 2 in the gw1 8 million players chart with 358 million spawns and heal beam being the most used ability at 4.9 billion deployments over 1.4 billion games played.

    Her new look is ok but like all the other bfn plants she's less detailed and looks like she's made of plastic. Imo gw1 had the best og4 plant designs with the uncanny valley bright veiny roots look.

    Gotta love how they remove the variants then rip stuffy flowers sound effects for bfn. Gotta love how the devs remind me of a better version and sytem of the character than what we got in bfn.

    Controversial maybe? Her health buff in gw2 was a bad move as it seems the devs forgot about the health upgrade, especially for vampire flower as now she can tank all stars ultra tackle and sunflowers if they land shots can easily 1v1 soldiers.

    In my alt abilities post I proposed giving rainbow beam better healing at a slower rate or vice versa.

    I personally don't mind full revives from healers but I agree it can be annoying when being swarmed by enemy healers.

    Her variants are all pretty visually distinct and I like that.

    Heal flower is better in combat due to dropping 3 suns at a time but heal flower is better for a flow of healing in an area. Dark flower is the "I'm getting my vanquish master and nobody can stop me" flower.

    Sunny side up feels braindead as there's no pot the sunflower has to stay next to, to keep it alive so it would save them but in bfn she has multiple uses of this ability and can use it to escape while spamming though its definetly better than scientist's bs.

    I think shes fallen off just because she's weaker and there isn't really as much need for her anymore with the way bfn works as a whole.

    ALIEN FLOWER MAINS RISE UP!!!

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