Forum Discussion

Anonymous's avatar
Anonymous
9 years ago
Approved

Flowers in GW2 should be tanks who deal low damage

the main problem with flowers is not the damage they deal its the fact they are weak.

the new buff to damage encourages players to play the flower as an attacking class similar to peashooter instead they should find ways to make sure and encourage flower play style to be focused mainly and most importantly on healing. not damage dealing.

the only way i can think of doing that would be making flowers more like tanks with more health making sure they can survive in those sticky situation so they will be able to keep healing their teammates.

along hand the shooting damage sould be low to the point you will not want to play the flower as a pure attacking class even if you would have higher health.

this will create a play style where you would avoid playing solo with the flower and you would just look for teammates to walk together with enjoying their superior damage dealing while you are more likely to survive with more health.

the game should do anything to encourage a healing play style but what they actually going to do is buff the damage.

that is just a quick fix / workaround so people will play more flower and the data will show more flowers are being played.

but the focus is going to be on an attacking flower and not a healing flower.

instead of a damage buff flowers should just get a health buff simple as that.

in GW1 flowers did not need more health because there was no zombie that dealt excessive damage a flower could not handle. and there were no abilities that could stop a group of plants holding a garden to the degree of abilities in GW2.

for example in GW1 the imp punt going into a garden with plants could ruin the party. but usually it would only get 1 or 2 plants SOMETIMES 3 plants.

a flower player could handle an imp punt and the overall damage dealt by the zombies was at a level a group of plants could handle and counter with healing.

in GW2 you have many abilities that will not allow a group of plants to hold a garden. imp bomb , superbrain spin , barrel , mechs , and then all the actual fire damage from all the zombies which comes quicker and with higher values then GW1 while the flowers kept its same health from GW1.

for example imp punt vs imp bomb the imp punt took skill to land on the other hand imp bomb does all the work for you. it will suck and entire plant team inside the garden circle. its like an imp punt that works everytime and kills everything inside a garden.

this is only one ability. the end result is you could hold a garden in GW1 for the entire game as flower supporting your team with healing and revives.

it is no longer possible in GW2 it is just a matter of time until one of the many abilities will get you.

flower has way less meaning in GW2 because of the higher damage and new abilities.

only thing that makes a bit of sense would be finding a way to make sure a flower could survive longer by adding health.

and you will want to make sure the shooting damage is a bit lower then a pure attacking class so flower players will be focused on healing.

in GW1 when you would play a good flower you could go a full round without getting any kills anyway as you were too busy keeping everyone alive. so there is no need for a TRUE flower player to have a high damage weapon/fire anyway.

the incoming buff is just a workaround and a testament of the bad design

7 Replies

  • Anonymous's avatar
    Anonymous
    9 years ago
    Approved

    First of all. Please use paragraphs a little more often and with a little more space.

    Second, we already have enough tanky characters. We shouldn't have half the characters in the game be a tank.

    There is metal petal too.

  • Anonymous's avatar
    Anonymous
    9 years ago
    Approved

    @Killerboy2807 wrote:

    We already have enough tanky characters. We shouldn't have half the characters in the game be a tank.

    There is metal petal too.


    Half the characters...? There are usually only one or two Plants that have an increase in health, and even then, they usually lose some of their speed in that trade.

    Now don't get me wrong, some of these characters with buffed health are awesome. Just look at Rock Pea and (the new) Armor Chomper!

    And then there are the ones that are... Not so great. Among those is the Metal Petal. Yes, I get it. 50 additional health to keep you alive in a fight.

    The key words there? In a fight. Sunflower is a healer, not a combat character (unlike the Scientist Zombie, who does both of these well).

    Metal Petal may have that additional 50 health, but the loss of speed really changes how you play this Sunflower. I've tested this, and she is almost as slow as the Armor Chomper.

    The whole 'more health, slower character' type of thing works really well for Armor Chomper, considering most Chompers are melee characters.

    But the same cannot be said about Metal Petal. As I touched on before, Sunflowers are supposed to be healers. Not offensive characters.

    Most armor characters, along with the whole 'more health, slower character' thing, have similar primary attacks that have some special tweaks. Armor Chomper chomps at a slower rate, but deals twice as much damage, Rock Pea can deal more damage with his splash effect, at the cost of some of his ammo, and the spikes Jade Cactus shoots explode, dealing damage to Zombies near the blast, at the cost of max ammo.

    Metal Petal's Metal Blasts are no different than the Sunflower's Sun Pulse, apart from how it looks.

    The main thing keeping Metal Petal back is her slow speed. It's bad being a slow healer, but when you're almost the slowest character in the game at the same time, things go wrong.

    As recently said, her weapon is not very good either, being no different from the basic Sunflower except for appearance.

    It would make sense if she had less ammo but dealt more damage, like with Rock Pea and Jade Cactus. But no, there is no difference between the Metal Blast and Sun Pulse.

    Metal Petal makes even some of the weaker characters, like Stuffy Flower, Commando Pea, and even sometimes Chomp Thing look good.

    That being said, all of those characters need some love too. You can expect a LONG list of all the underpowered characters coming sometime in the future, as well as my suggestions to help make then good.

  • Anonymous's avatar
    Anonymous
    9 years ago
    Approved

    There is already Metal Flower which is extremely good and seems fits your description. Right?

  • Anonymous's avatar
    Anonymous
    9 years ago
    Approved

    how about you actually read posts above you before repeating what already been said

  • Anonymous's avatar
    Anonymous
    9 years ago
    Approved

    Sorry it's really hard to read those amount of *.

    Anyway
    "Metal Petal makes even some of the weaker characters, like Stuffy Flower, Commando Pea, and even sometimes Chomp Thing look good."
    I can say: Funny. Metal flower was already a good character with the armor reduction of sunbeam and already good for healing, and she got a damage buff, now is much more safer to play.
    Stuffy Sunflower weak.. WELL I HAVE NO WORDS.
     

    Second:

    Sunflower doesn't need HP, he needed last patch when:

    - Electro Brainz arc damage made them impossible to heal someone without dying to arc damage.. this is fixed

    - Scientists, Imps and S.brainz was free for a counter (Rose) and Citron wasn't not a lot played, so made sunflower life much harder.


    Sunflower got a huge interesting buff. Not only damage but also Sunflower and Dark Pot Cooldown, made his life much MUCH easier compared to before, i find almost OUTRAGEOUS continuesly complain as all the trio of working assassin scientists got nerf, and those who work at high range are not even strong as close to sunflowers right now. The true is that right now sunflowers can be considered a very well class with most of variations working decently (besides Alien, which imho could deserve a faster rate of fire and made his bullet do low damage like park ranger, this just to make more clouds and more crowd controlling)

    Do we still have to complain plants being weaker than zombie forever and ever? I was agree with the cause for a while but now seems the people in this forum are not objectives. At the moment sunflower already outclass scientists in any mean.
    Sunflowers, and Metal which now is pretty good can stay much more in fights as Citrons protect them and zombies are generally weaker.
    Sunflower life is much easier now with both pot lowered cooldown.. and this helped them in sustain A LOT.

    Sunflower damage increased didn't make them play like a foot soldier, sunflower mains are usually people that specifically play that class only, and usually are also expert as far as i see, i don't consider them noobs, i know that the increased damage is not "confusing" their role and their job.

    For the tankyness, this could make combo like sunflower+sunflower pot even deadlier than they are right now with Metal Flower.
    Play an All-Star and tell me if you can kill them when they do it if you're at medium-high range.

    And once more... SUNFLOWERS aren't SLAVES. People wanted these changes to see sunflowers being played like slave's support in a casual game, no-one will end up playing them, in any game, even professional ones characters like this are usually hate by everyone as thei have usually low-skillflow and no entertainment inside them, but let's go further, i think this change will make them even worst. Sunflowers doesn't need to be anymore a top-healer class anymore, as i said healing is much less "necessary" right now.
    If you think about this, hpregen and hpdelay runes make them almost useless, and the fact you can heal yourself alone completely after an amount of seconds make them not anymore necessary, and this IS WHY sunflower got a buff, to compensate the fact healings are less important in this game, otherwise he was decently balanced.
    These changes was just to made them defend theirselves easier, as changing entire kits and skills is MUCH harder.

    The only change that i could understand is a replace to sunbeam in favor of a movespeed skill, just to help them in herbaul assault, that's it.

    Despite the frustration of being nuked last patch by a scientists, remeber that scientists has no range. or if have he can't really outrade anyone, means almost the only source of damage he does comes from him coming next to you = much risky job

    and the fact that all damage come from him are inside their Kills.

    The actual scoreboard doesn't reward sunflowers, as it should reward not only assist, but also damage dealed, don't you think you can deal the same amount of damage with a sunflower compared to a scientists with much less kills and not appearing in top of scoreboard?

    Do the balance need to be going around the scoreboard or the real balance?

    Note:
    Stuffy Flower, Metal Flower can be considered right now the best sunflower.
    Stuffy Flower could have less damage but an interesting passive to help the frontline AND better accuracy, this is not obvious, but it is.
    Metal Flower was already borderline op, but the lack of damage made him not interesting to play, this has been solved, and his tankyness + damage + sunflower pot much more frequent made him a very safe and solid pick to play, now is even better than vampire.

    Scientists despite the bias and his op trio is in a very weak spot, maybe is just easier to play for the warp, but that's it

  • The fact that they buffed the sunflower's damage already gives them more survivability to support and heal the team and as two others have said if you want a tanky sunflower that deals low damage that's what the metal petal is. sunflowers can tank (abit) and heal the team if you place your heal flower in a good spot to aid in healing you and your team and two sunflowers healing each other already makes for a tanky combination.

  • Aside from game play being rather boring I don't think this would be a good idea given how fast flowers can revive in GW2. You'd get a bunch of flowers just sitting on the cap point healing and reviving each other till it capped they wouldn't even need support then.

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