Gardens and Graveyards - Unbalanced
Hi all, I've been playing PvZGW now since launch, and I'm pretty sure this has been brought up already, but I have a suggestion if anyone noteworthy is reading. Gardens and Graveyards is horribly u...
Forum Discussion
@neokarny wrote:
@wolfmoon2682 wrote:I was also of a mind that Zombies are OP in G&G and then... well to be quite frank i stopped sucking as a plant lol. The more you play the game and start to learn how to play each class and their role in G&G the easier it is to stop the zombies. Now, with that having been said, the zombies DO have the luxury of being able to zerg without much thought... but that's the beauty of it... they are zombies! They are supposed to feel stupid and relentless, Popcap has done a PHENOMENAL job at conveying that sense and maintaining the original games feel in that regard.
On the other hand, the plants have a closer spawn point to the garden, that might seem like it isn't much but it's VERY crucial, they don't have to worry about a teleporter or defending it. The zombies do!
So it's like this my man, you need plants who know how to STAY in the garden and less peashooters camping on the rooftops. You also need a few cacti trolling the engineers with drone strikes and shooting down the engineers drones as well! That is one of the reasons Popcap made challenges a part of the leveling system! It's also there to teach you your class and your classes role in the game! Pay attention to it and you will do much better.
There is zero need for a rebalance, but i do feel your pain when you get into a random room of plants that camp on rooftops and let the zombies zerg without much push back.
I also think that plants need more coins, i seen someone say they don't because if they win quickly the coins per minute are good, whatever lol, they need more incentive to be played! Each garden should pay no less than 1k for defending it and the first garden should offer up a 10k bonus! That way, more players will be inclined to actually play the plants instead of mashing the change team buttons!
I don't think it's a matter of "just play better."
Since we've been stuck on Wall-nut Hills for days now, I've never once seen plants win after playing a couple dozen games or more on this one map. It just can't be done. Now people have come to realize that since zombies win all the time, that's the team they need to be on for the coins, which makes the whole experience even worse.Plants can win on other maps in G&G, so I'm not sure it's G&G that needs rebalanced as much as this map specifically. The end-game especially, but also the gardens, are just plain impossible to defend for the average players (who are actually playing the game, not some hypothetical "better player").
Don't tell me it can't be done, i've done it several times in the past 2 days man! You just need a team that doesn't play like garbage! If you don't shut down the teleporters you are going to lose, if you don't keep plants inside the garden you are going to lose. It's rather simple. HOWEVER, trying to do that with randoms is not as easy as it sounds.
I hate to sound like a braggart but i usually win on the plant team, i play as a cactus and i almost always shut down the teleporter and the engineers trying to build it. I've received SEVERAL hate messages because of it and it makes me chuckle.
@wolfmoon2682 wrote:
Don't tell me it can't be done, i've done it several times in the past 2 days man! You just need a team that doesn't play like garbage! If you don't shut down the teleporters you are going to lose, if you don't keep plants inside the garden you are going to lose. It's rather simple. HOWEVER, trying to do that with randoms is not as easy as it sounds.I hate to sound like a braggart but i usually win on the plant team, i play as a cactus and i almost always shut down the teleporter and the engineers trying to build it. I've received SEVERAL hate messages because of it and it makes me chuckle.
*Edit: Apparently it didn't want to take my text so here it is again.
At risk of making people angry with me I'll share my experiences.
Defending the first point as plants is very possible, I've done it several times including earlier today. The key difference is this only seems to happen if I am the cactus or peashooter and I actively attack the teleporter. (Since nobody else seems to want to) This has lead to some hate messages, which I admit are pretty humorous. My personal favorite is Agent Pea, makes me feel like a secret agent on a solo sabatoge mission. (Pea sappin mah sentry) The other key destinction is, I often get perfect wins when there are severla chompers. I can't imagine why... may have to do with the fact they actually stay on the objective. The lesson here is defending the first point CAN BE DONE, even when outnumbered by 3-4. It all depends on if some players are willing to take initiative. The question then becomes, are you willing to be one of those players?
Winning as the plants is pretty easy if you know what you're doing. I've got three words for you CHILI BEAN BOMBS, if you have at least 3 Peashooters on the team there's no reason why you can't defend any garden on any map. If the peas camp the objective instead of running off and getting killed one by one they dominate every game with their massive splash damage and nuclear bomb attacks. As it's been said, locate and dominate the teleporters. Keep plants IN the garden, if the number of zombies outnumbers the plants they'll take the hill. Remember that summoned zombies also count and can capture gardens! I see so many plants ignoring summoned zombies in the hill, attacking or leaving them to capture it. Stick together, plants are weak alone but if you have a group at the garden you've got things covered, don't run off and do whatever you want. That goes for you too cacti, hiding using your drones! A cactus is deadly, their mines and wallnuts can really deter zombies, if you insist on hiding and using your drone drop off your wallnuts and mines first.
I think people just assume that the plants are weaker and that it's not possible to win because they're getting stuck with younger players who don't know what they're doing or adults that would rather go out and spawn camp zombies instead of protecting the garden.
@xcrimsonlegendx wrote:Winning as the plants is pretty easy if you know what you're doing. I've got three words for you CHILI BEAN BOMBS, if you have at least 3 Peashooters on the team there's no reason why you can't defend any garden on any map. If the peas camp the objective instead of running off and getting killed one by one they dominate every game with their massive splash damage and nuclear bomb attacks. As it's been said, locate and dominate the teleporters. Keep plants IN the garden, if the number of zombies outnumbers the plants they'll take the hill. Remember that summoned zombies also count and can capture gardens! I see so many plants ignoring summoned zombies in the hill, attacking or leaving them to capture it. Stick together, plants are weak alone but if you have a group at the garden you've got things covered, don't run off and do whatever you want. That goes for you too cacti, hiding using your drones! A cactus is deadly, their mines and wallnuts can really deter zombies, if you insist on hiding and using your drone drop off your wallnuts and mines first.
I think people just assume that the plants are weaker and that it's not possible to win because they're getting stuck with younger players who don't know what they're doing or adults that would rather go out and spawn camp zombies instead of protecting the garden.
This is true, a lot of plants wander off and try to spawn camp or just focus on kills. As a cactus though, imo it's more important to harrass the hell out of the enineers, i drops mines in the garden when i can but it's more more crucial to take out the teleporter and keep the enemy drones from droping conebombs in the garden.
@finalzidane wrote:
@wolfmoon2682 wrote:
Don't tell me it can't be done, i've done it several times in the past 2 days man! You just need a team that doesn't play like garbage! If you don't shut down the teleporters you are going to lose, if you don't keep plants inside the garden you are going to lose. It's rather simple. HOWEVER, trying to do that with randoms is not as easy as it sounds.I hate to sound like a braggart but i usually win on the plant team, i play as a cactus and i almost always shut down the teleporter and the engineers trying to build it. I've received SEVERAL hate messages because of it and it makes me chuckle.
*Edit: Apparently it didn't want to take my text so here it is again.
At risk of making people angry with me I'll share my experiences.
Defending the first point as plants is very possible, I've done it several times including earlier today. The key difference is this only seems to happen if I am the cactus or peashooter and I actively attack the teleporter. (Since nobody else seems to want to) This has lead to some hate messages, which I admit are pretty humorous. My personal favorite is Agent Pea, makes me feel like a secret agent on a solo sabatoge mission. (Pea sappin mah sentry) The other key destinction is, I often get perfect wins when there are severla chompers. I can't imagine why... may have to do with the fact they actually stay on the objective. The lesson here is defending the first point CAN BE DONE, even when outnumbered by 3-4. It all depends on if some players are willing to take initiative. The question then becomes, are you willing to be one of those players?
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! I've been the lone cactus taking out the teleporter so many times. Also chompers rock at keeping the garden clear. I honestly think that a team of mostly chompers and 1 cactus 1 peashooter can win in G&G if they have a tight unit who knows what to do.
Everyone always choses zombies and then the teams are unbalanced!
@smashisblack wrote:Everyone always choses zombies and then the teams are unbalanced!
Okay... what part of you can't EVER have more than 2 extra players on the other team don't people understand!? The only way it can be more is if people leave during the match... That is NOT an issue, I see even teams pretty much non stop. The issue is people suck at playing the plants and the coins for plants needs to be increased. The end.
Most matches I get into have been full till the next game, then about 25% quit and then after the match starts everyone jumps to zombies. It stays like that for about 5 mins then it fills up again and back to the race to play zombies. Just from what I seen so far this week on the xbone
As it's been said before, it's more than possible to win Wallbutt hillls as the plants and there doesn't need to be much if any balancing.
Not my best game but it proves the point, if the plants actually cooperate it's plenty fair as it is.
- Even if you do stop them 5 out of 7 gardens, you still get wayyy less coins, which I think is the issue. Because once you play more as plants, you'll be able to learn what's the best vantage points and such. But I've held them back even 7/7 gardens an it'll still only give me 8-10k coins(and I'm usually top 3 in games)
The problem isn't that the payouts are bad for plants, it's that the time played causes the zombies to make a lot more. If the plants get a perfect game and shut out the zombies on the first garden they only get so many kills and only play for a short time resulting in way less coins. If the zombies play thought and win, it's a long drawn out game and they make 6-8k coins JUST one kills and other stats. The payouts for gardens taken/protected are very similar and it really wouldn't be fair to anyone if the plants could play for 5 minuets and make 10k coins but the zombies have to sit down for twenty minuets to make the same.
Yeah, I do think that the coins need to be balanced but just jacking up the payout for plants isn't a simple answer like people think.
