EA Staff (Retired)Dear EA & POPCAP, here is my conclusion about the patch after a few hours of gaming:
Good Job; Rose is perfect. She is weak on distance and strong on close battles. Overall the balancing seems to be much better. No matter if I play Zombie or Plants, i feel equal. The Imp is better but not too strong. he can be handeled very good either as plant or as Imp-Player.
But some Issues still make me worry:
1. I like to play catus and Ranger. When you stand behind low obstacle (e.g. gable of a roof) and you have free sight on your opponent, you are often unable to hit him because there is a "invisible" obstacle - while your opponent is aber to hit you.
2. The Hit query (Hope this is the right word in english). Sometimes I noticed: having full free sight on enemy. The enemy stands still and does not move. nevertheless, a lot of bullets dont hit him. Nothing happens. If i move a few meters, the bullets hit again. Seems to be a problem of netcode. Is this known?
So far my conclusion.
*gets the Super Yeti Wave, normal boss music plays*
...T.T
@MentalMosquito wrote:
Ice Rose also got a deserved movement nerf while moving. If future cactus can't move fast or jump while charging why should rose? Well done here.
This is the worst change at all.
Future cactus projectile speed is almost instant. Also the attack itself is thin, so you can snipe quite well.
Rose can't snipe, because the attack is terrible slow and the projectile is big (with non relevant splash damage)
. It's also troubling using a cover to charge because you have to full exit to shoot, it's not enough line of sight, to avoid hitting the obstacole. It's impossible to charge in battle for obvious reasons and so... fire and ice are actually a lot weaker than the base.
So, my impressions.
I can't say much about basic Rose, so I will focus on fire/ice.
First thing to note, however, is that rose lacks of identity.
As is now, it's a closed range char. But doesn't have the dmg burst to kill at close range, neither the speed to avoid shots.
Mid/long range is terrible. The projectile speed is so slow that without homing even a blind can easily dodge the attacks.
Charged shots are basically useless... to hit something you must be at close range but if you charge at close range you're dead.
The homing skill now is little useful too: the range is so close that when it starts working it's easily avoidable running in circle, so actually the only chance is to land time slow to kill something.
Basic logic says that if the damage is low (5+4dot for fire rose) with no splash the projectile speed must be high.
There are several ways to rebalance; what I suggest is
1) increase projectile speed. A LOT
2) significantly increase movement speed
That said, homing could be totally removed: should never existed in my opinion.
I'll also add a little dot to time slow (such 3 ticks of 5 dmg) and remove speed reduction when charging
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That said, in general, the game balance is much better: better to have a weak characther than a dominating one
So far the only thing I've noticed that seems a little out of balance are the imps mechs. While they aren't impossible to destroy, I feel like they can be a little weaker health wise. When two mechs are in a capture point in Turf Takeover it becomes really tough to do anything about it so they immediately dominate with not contest.
If I think anything else is a little off I'll post more feedback.
I want to tell you about what i think about the actual game state.
Im just a noob who loved Ice Rose, and kinda Fire one as well and decided to make my new mains.
First:
I personally agree for the most of the Rose nerf.
She was too oppressive both as Melee and Range (the same as the actual Electro Brainz)
Those two CC needed to give more counterplay, and infact they nerfed them.
The homing was quite painful and i always think it shoulded be removed completely and give her AA normal projectile Speed.. but in the end they just decided to make the homing harder.
They nerfed the range and as far as i understood now each bullet have each own tracking system which is even harder than normally firing, but if a character is just hard to use, i dont think is a big problem.
BUT i think they excessed with nerfs, mostly because of people complaining about her every day.
She moved into a more safe position when you have to be more dependant to your team, which is perfect considering she's meant to be a support, because of the nerf range and the health.
I personally dont like the Health nerf but i think if this is the way to make a character hard to play, than im happy i have a challange in it... still dont like and i dont know if this was necessary but if is to avoid rose spamming than lets accept this.
Now your role is support your team trying to peeling your carryes with your spells while trying also to protect yourself.
Base Rose is fine.
But Fire one is kinda meh and Ice one completely SUCKS.
They nerfed her special charged attack.
Let's go deeper.
Those strongest Charged attacks were extremely Toxic, but why?
In first place you could move and even jump at regular movespeed just giving you a huge burst on your damage with No cost.
Those charged attacks were powerful also cause the homing, so you could basically sniping people with Fire one.
But now the nerf range moved them more into a "kinda melee-class" so i dont honestly know if those nerfs were necessary after all.
Now you have to put yourself in a vulnerable position for an exchange of a little burst. The risk is very high considering the reward.
At least Fire ones has good damage (50) and procs fire which gives her a decent amount of damage. But still Base one has a good amount of base damage and good fire ratio WHILE moving and making yourself extrasafer, so no point to use Fire one at all
Ice one is a garbage.
Frost Rose in first place was pretty much balanced compared to other Roses.
She ddnt had enough damage (HALF DAMAGE) and less Ratio, she couldn play like a idiot frontliner, you were forced to play her more safety and dependant to your team, WHICH is Rose desing.
The only broken thing with her was the homing range, with her range out and the homing became more hard to use she's ok.
She could only duel people when they was enought in range to get your charged autoattacks and chain both Goatify and Time Warp.
STILL even with one charged attacks and both your CC you wasnt enable to kill a lots of Zombies with a good amount of hp and forced to reload your weapon in the while making you in a rough position, now even more rough consider the fact those CC lasts less.
INSTEAD they apply a superspecial nerf to her with NO REASON at all. They removed entirely the Instafreeze on the charged attack, they reduced the damage (50 to 35) and now i can't even jump or move.
The charged attacks now has a lot of RISK which gives NO REWARD at all.
What's the point now?
The instafreeze on the charged attack was her CORE, her CONCEPT and you shouldnt never touch this on a character but just reduce numbers.
Now compare to others Roses she hasnt enough damage to protect herself and freezing people took A LOTS, even after the charged attack you still need to shoot a LOTS to freeze them, and maybe is even better to shoot them normally to freeze them quickly.
Someone could say "Supports are not meant to damage"
Well no.
Supports doesnt mean you cant carry or you cant do damage. YOU HAVE to do damage, otherwise you make your teammates job harder because they have to do the damage you lack, besides that lets compare to Scientists which has not only a huge impact in the game as a healer but also damage/pick up/assassination potential.
Scientists isnt op. He is an ok support and he is the demonstration supports DO need damage.
If you want to make the character in line with your design than are just more ways to go than touching her CORE.
*Charged attacks
Cant move or jump- fine. You have to pay the cost
Freeze- Untouched
Damage reduction: 35 to 10 or even 5.
Just reduce her damage to the way she CANT 1vs1 anyone and she's team depedant. But at least i can be useful * IF i manage to Freeze you in the PROPER timing.
If the problem is her charged attack can be spammed non stop than just make a way to not abuse it, for example.
"effect: you can only use your charged attack once for every X seconds" and make it like a regular skills with a cooldown
If you think there's no counterplay to be CC chained... well, actually Scientists and SuperZombies doesnt CC anything.
MOstly kills you straightly when they come in your face.
BTW i still think afterall she should move and jump consider now your job is to stay in the backline facing Superzombies and Scientists which are very stronger afterall and making yourself vulnerable is kinda stupid.
Sorry for my english, i know it sucks but i hope you can understand my totally sadness to see my character totally killed.
Im still using Fire Rose and think she's... kinda ok, but seeing Frost one in this state makes me sad in a way you cant even imagine.
