Forum Discussion

Iron_Guard8's avatar
7 years ago

May 2018 Balance Changes

So if you haven't seen them yet, here's the link to elsewhere on this site:

https://www.pvzgw2.com/news/may-2018-tuning-update

Citron is not getting as much of a change as I expected based on Justin's tweets but seeing the drop off for splash damage and long range is certainly one way to keep them from outsniping Cacti at least. EMPeach having less of a slow effect (20% reduction vs. 50%) is certainly welcome. How these work out in actual play we'll have to see for ourselves. 

Engineer got some mostly minor tweaks but I especially like to see the buff to turbo jackhammer as far as range. That was my own main issue with it; the standard jackhammer could go further since it lasted so much longer even if the turbo was faster.

Some of the alternate abilities still need some love, but glad to see them getting looked at like this. Whenever you have alternate abilities and no one or almost no one uses them or vice-versa they need to be looked at. Alternate abilities should be just that; options that play to individual playstyles and not automatically inferior or superior. We'll have to see how these changes play out but again I appreciate the effort to get things balanced better.

20 Replies

  • I am not totally ok with you, the buff for the multiple classes of engineer are very good because a big part of those engineers was a pain to play but the citron doesnt deserve that. He was very good but not as good as the cactus is, if you know how to AIM, cactus is a true beast at long range like at short range. Citron was a fun character but now he's just an useless character, he's now an assist professional, he's very good at short range yes but with a big character like this, this is suicid in tombstone and garden to play it. Im ok with you about toxic and iron one, their nerf is totally unjustified, the electric one is now more than useless, I agree he deserved a nerf because this one was like a cactus because of his big attack and the speed of his shots.

  • pandareno1999's avatar
    pandareno1999
    Hero+
    7 years ago

    I tested the turbo jackhammer last night on great white north.  There is no way that turbo goes as far as regular jackhammer, as they claim.  I found it to stop at least a hundred yards short of the full jackhammer distance.  This was extremely obvious because there are several teleporters that are reached exactly when the regular jackhammer runs out.  It sure is fast though.

  • Iron citron and Electro citron didn't really need the nerf (but i do agree with nerfing Electro's blast damage) but overall i say the citron nerf is fine but you probably won't be seeing him used during many boss hunts now.

  • Iron_Guard8's avatar
    Iron_Guard8
    Legend
    7 years ago

    Overall I like these changes. Getting sniped by a guy with a shield, 200 health, and the ability to hide their entire bulk behind a rock while only their side mounted weapon can be seen was just a bad situation. This change puts Cactus back as the premier plant sniper overall as it should be. You can of course snipe with other plants, especially Agent Pea and most Sunflowers, but Cactus was always designed around the sniper concept.

    I haven’t played Iron Citron since the changes yet but I will tonight during quests to see how he was changed. My initial impression is that he needs a slight reversion of the nerf as his range drop off for damage was pretty hefty already.

    Toxic Citron got nerfed a bit too hard I fear. Already more a support character than a direct damage variant, I feel they need a slight reversion of their nerf to balance them out a bit better.

    The basic Citron was solid at close range and can poke at medium-long range, making them feel more balanced. Pretty happy with where he’s at.

    Party Citron as Reddit points out may need a slight alteration to make it not almost always superior to the basic Citron but wasn’t bad.

    Electro Citron feels fine to me. I was able to do 30 damage to one of the turrets on the gate in Zomburbia while not being in its range with a full charge. The arc damage was reduced but electric attacks have always been in an odd place. I remember when electro-brainz did more damage with the arc damage than the target took on a direct hit!

    Frozen Citron always feels fine now. Still can freeze zombies fairly well, and dangerous up close but long range damage is much less powerful as befits the role they want.

    The Engineer changes were all good. I didn’t test the Turbo vs. normal jackhammer directly but it was definitely longer ranged than it was. It was just not a viable choice before. I tried it out in GW1, found it lacking, and never used it again until now. I’ll probably ask my friend to do a direct comparison tonight just to have a definitive result and report it here.

    The basic engineer getting that damage buff is fine as far as I can tell. He’s always been effective but his numbers apparently were a little too low so bringing up to the median standard of performance is a good thing for balance overall.

    Plumber has always been my favorite engineer so seeing him buffed is a good thing considering how he fires fairly slow and relies heavily on splash damage. He’s always been better vs. large groups than single targets and continues to do so. His near misses will be more effective now as well.

    Sanitation Expert getting help is good as well. Always liked him (but then I like pretty much every character to some degree) but he was a sluggish shooter. His buffs are welcome.

    Painter buffs I’m unsure of as of yet. Need to play him a bit more to check but I don’t see him played all that much so probably a good idea. Faster projectiles and tighter reticles reinforces him being the ‘sniper variant’ of the Engineer class.

    Overall a thumbs up from me. Makes me hopeful for the next game being better balanced at launch which is certainly a good thing.

  • Iron_Guard8's avatar
    Iron_Guard8
    Legend
    7 years ago

    @pandareno1999 wrote:

    I tested the turbo jackhammer last night on great white north.  There is no way that turbo goes as far as regular jackhammer, as they claim.  I found it to stop at least a hundred yards short of the full jackhammer distance.  This was extremely obvious because there are several teleporters that are reached exactly when the regular jackhammer runs out.  It sure is fast though.


    I hate to be contradictory here but my friend and I just tested it on Great White North as we had to capture 5 gardens/graveyards for quests and it was the perfect time to test it with no opponents. He went turbo and I used the normal one. It indeed is very close if not exactly the same, we both got to the snowdrift by the right (from the zobmie's perspective) teleporter, him first and then me a bit later thanks to my slower speed. We then tested it running from point to point and it is extremely close. This makes the decision between them much more viable as the turbo was just not a good option before.

    I also did a little testing of Iron Citron and his longer range shots may need a slight upward bump but up close he still packs a punch. Toxic seems the hardest hit right now of the citrons overall.

  • pandareno1999's avatar
    pandareno1999
    Hero+
    7 years ago

    Contradict away!  I appreciate how kindly you put that.

    I almost posted after you this afternoon that I should have tested it a bit more rigorously before making such a statement.  I just zipped through GWN once, probably to do the quest for building teleporters.  I seemed to fall quite a bit short of what I'm used to on a couple of the teleporters.  But I may just have wasted some of its energy bumping into terrain or whatnot.

  • SonicMaster92's avatar
    SonicMaster92
    7 years ago

    @pandareno1999, I tested both Jackhammer abilities, using a stretch of road in the backyard battleground. They both go the same exact distance!

  • dwooten77's avatar
    dwooten77
    7 years ago
    I’m really glad the jackhammer mystery has been solved. It’s been weighing on me heavily.
  • Iron_Guard8's avatar
    Iron_Guard8
    Legend
    7 years ago

    @dwooten77 wrote:
    I’m really glad the jackhammer mystery has been solved. It’s been weighing on me heavily.

    You and me both! When I saw @pandareno1999's post about it not living up to expectations I was concerned that it wasn't patched properly so made the test a priority.

  • Punisaur's avatar
    Punisaur
    7 years ago

    I agree with a majority of this. I felt that Citron was a bit overwhelming prior to patch, but at the same time the update might have gone a tad overboard. I never felt that the Electric, Iron, or Toxic Citron to be in need of such dire nerfs. As a result this patch, I hope some tweaking the other way comes along. As for the engineers, overall I am impressed, more so by the desire to make secondary abilities relevant. Prior to the patch though, I never felt that they were so underwhelming that they needed the buffs they got. I will say at this point the painter and Toxic Engineer now have extreme potential in the right hands. This not including the 5 damage the generic one received as well. 

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