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Iron_Guard8's avatar
4 years ago

Turf Takeover capture points and end screen changes

While we only have Gardens & Graveyards in GW, GW2 and BfN added Herbal Assault and combined called the mode Turf Takeover; my favorite mode and far and away the most played mode on PC. 

In GW they ranged from 5 to 7 total capture points to take, including the finale and each had their own end screen where little statues of gardens or graveyards would land to show how each team did. While I would argue that GW has too much roof top camping and proliferation of certain classes, especially upgraded Super Commandos and Toxic Peas, I find that on average the original is the best overall experience, even as I like GW2 more as a total package. Every map felt it like it could be slid directly into PvZ or PvZ2 with the consistent themes here. 

In GW2, all maps are 6 points long, including the finale (I'm not counting Wall-Nut Hills here since it's a GW map originally), which gives them more consistency. The end screen is generic which was a letdown after GW, although not actually bad it loses the character and attention to detail of the first game, with a single line with the statues falling to show who took/held each point. They also added the podium screen which I'm largely indifferent too. The map themes are more a mix here, with zombies attacking an amusement park and the arctic, while defending their city, moon base, and suburb with university. I enjoy all these maps and the high ground is more easily reached by more characters, so it has a lot less of those situations in GW where you were dealing with so many foot soldiers and peashooters all the time. It still has some problem variants,  but it's less of an issue than it was in GW.

BfN cuts the maps to a total of only 4 points, including the finale. I'm going to presume this was done for two reasons; one, to make the maps play faster, and two, to require less work per map. Like GW2, it has a generic end screen and keeps the podium although one significant improvement is the changes to the boasts like adding objective master, which should have been a thing since GW. The themes here generally fit into the PvZ/PvZ2 aesthetic more closely than GW2 does, but not as close as GW did. The finales are mostly below the GW and GW2 finales, especially TTI's end game, but at least the end cut scenes are mostly good (except the plant win on Tourist Trap Island is very lackluster). Certain builds and stuff like the Brainium Basher can really skew matches here, which is a major problem. The lack of teleporters really hurts these maps as sprinting is almost required without them, thanks to the long walks between points. Lots of maps have cart pushing too, which has been a camping issue the entire time. There are reasons why Preserve Pastures and Peachy District are my favorites in BfN; and no cart pushing is a huge part of that.

What I'd like to see in the next game:

  • Go back to the customized end maps from GW. Those were actually a nice extra bit of immersion that I love, and I know many others love as well.
  • Bring teleporters back. Whether you keep the GW/GW2 system of 2 fixed but randomly selected spots per point or more like TF2 where you can build one anywhere, they are a great part of the GW games.
  • Increase the capture points on new maps to at least 5. 7 is a lot, so I get not using 7 again, 6 is decent, 5 would be a bit faster without feeling too short, but 4 is just not enough points.
  • Bring back GW and GW2 TT maps with any needed balance adjustments; including, but not limited too: making high ground more easily accessible, having some sniper spots but not too many so they don't dominate, changing things so the bigger characters can maneuver, and tweak the spawns to avoid spawn camping which isn't always an issue, but on some maps in all 3 games, you're going to see it.
  • Barring Preserve Pastures and Peachy District, I'm not too concerned with bringing back any BfN TT maps, but if they are retained (after GW and GW2 maps for sure), they need lots of adjustments, so maybe just keep the themes and redo them from scratch. They'd need spots for teleporters, at least 5 points each (finale included), and of course to have more flanks to fight with.
  • Keep the finales fun and balanced. The only one I don't really like is the Tourist Trap Island one in BfN where you just push a 'trolley' back and forth. My favorite is from GW2's Moon Base Z (even with the camping that pops up, which could be adjusted to avoid that, or at least reduce it). Keep them whimsical and try to balance them best you can; some will need tweaking (like Wall-Nut Hills' final point to avoid zombie cheese), but most are good and critics praised them in general as a nice twist on the mode.
  • Remove cart pushing or at least change it up a bit. When BfN first launched in Founders and some folks were complaining about them, I didn't see a problem with them, but after playing a lot of BfN TT matches, they are an issue. Not even 100% why as in theory they should be fine, but that hasn't been my experience. Maybe it's the mix of regular points with the carts that are essentially mobile ones, maybe its because instead of being able to attack the point from multiple points, you have to focus on that cart to push it. It's worked alright in Paladins, so I can't 100% say here.

3 Replies

  • @Iron_Guard8 In favor of bringing back all the gw1&2 maps.

    One thing they have to address from bfn is how capturing works because it's a mess.

    Requiring all defenders to be elimimated from such a large area that's walled in is a nightmare due to how slow the capture progress is, in gw one browncoat could capture a majority of the point but it worked there because it clearly means the defenders aren't defending or their pots are gone.

    In bfn just one defender can stall an entire team a problem that happens far too much with invisible nightcaps in the corner. Compare this to defenders needing an equal number to the amount of attackers to stop their progress and capture progress going faster for how many there are.

    Overtime has Also gotta go back to the way it was. Bfn's overtime resets everytime somebody touches the objective which can cause games to go on for a long time. In gw a zombie had to bum rush the objective and STAY ALIVE for overtime to work and he was at risk from everything defenders or pots could throw at him on the small point.

    Objective master is a nice addition and should stay.

    Bringing back the maps isn't necessary but I would like to see them again.

    They put payloads in a game with massive aoe attacks on short cooldowns that's the problem compared to how they worked in games like tf2 where there are several other mechanics to be factored like ubers, sentries, scout capture speed, small cart you can't hide behind, and weapon variation.

    4 points feels far too small and rushes through the map. Im fine with 6 as they feel about the right size.
  • Iron_Guard8's avatar
    Iron_Guard8
    Legend
    4 years ago

    @stukapooka excellent point about the capturing. It absolutely needs to return to how it was in GW and GW2 as it's too easy to defend with one player in BfN, even if 10 attackers are on the point, and its so frustrating to lose progress with the cut off points on the capture bar. They should have left that alone as it's just not fun to deal with in BfN.

    Remember how insane OT was in Founders? It was awful. It's still a mess in BfN, so agreed, go back to GW/GW2 here too.

  • stukapooka's avatar
    stukapooka
    Legend
    4 years ago
    @Iron_Guard8 The suburbination, tt, Gnome bomb sprinting, and overtime changes all feel so out of place and messed up. Did people really have a problem with how they worked in 1 and 2?

    So many bizarre and unnecessary changes in bfn as a whole. It really does feel like a case of if it ain't broke don't fix it.

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